Tigger73's 125TSI Tiguan Build Thread

[Ramee]

Yeah boost was logged before and after being tuned by APR and didn't show up any issues. Just differences in tuning.

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So did both Vezu and APR are running same boost? Love to see the boost plots if you have them.

[tigger73]

OK the long awaited dyno results are in.

Similar conditions this morning and the APR stage 2+ file made 137kwaw on my 125TSI with DQ500 DSG.

Graphs below

Green = APR
Blue = Viezu




The difference is quite noticeable on the road - mainly in the mid throttle (which you don't see on this dyno graph). APR tune has better response - you really don't need to get the boot in to get the car up to speed.

Admittedly the original Viezu tune (with the lower RPM heistation) was a lot closer (135.7kwaw peak), however I think they've backed things off in the current file to remove the hesitation issues. You can see that in the AFR's as the Viezu tune is sitting around 11 whereas APR is sitting around 12, so Viezu is running quite a bit richer and certainly down on power a bit because of that.

So unless you're going to be driving around 6,000+ RPM then the APR tune is the one you'll want.

Having said that both run the 0-100 sprint in around the same time. APR has more mid-range while Viezu will keep going at the top end which is where APR starts tailing off quite noticably.

I'm sure Simon/Viezu will continue their file development, but for now at least I'll be keeping the APR file on my car.

[Lucas_R]

Looks like a winner Tiggs. Better AFR, more torque everywhere and more power everywhere until 6k rpm - when the little k03 well and truly runs out of breath.

[tigger73]

Looks like a winner Tiggs. Better AFR, more torque everywhere and more power everywhere until 6k rpm - when the little k03 well and truly runs out of breath.

Yes Lucas, it's only taken me 2 years but I've finally admitted defeat and joined the APR crowd

Not that it's a bad bunch but it would still be nice to have some options for Tig hardware/software available on the market.... and yes I understand it's only a relatively small market and that's where the problem lies. If you buy a Golf GTI/R you're spoilt for choice - but as my recent experience has shown the competition are still a little way off with the Tigs.

On another note I suspect (and am still to have this confirmed) that there may be quite substantial drive-line losses in the DQ500 gearbox. If everything is working as it should on my car, the engine "should" be putting out close to 200kW. Assuming 30% driveline losses would give 140kwaw.

Just wondering whether anyone else has stuck their DQ500 Tig on the dyno and have any power output figures be interested to compare notes. Also if there's any Tig owner in Adelaide with a TSI engine and DQ500 DSG that would like to put their car on the dyno in the interests of science please let me know.

At the moment I'm putting my relatively low power figures down to driveline losses but if there's a way to quantify/verify/validate this that would be great.

Finally I'm going to get a GPS based timer and do some "proper" 0-100 times so I can know definitively what it's doing on the road. Hopefully then I'll be able to verify the other times I've got to date using my OBD timer (FIS+).

[Tiggy1]

Great to hear you've finally got a result
Possibly not as much straight out power as expected, but certainly looks to be a more useable tune for around town - certainly backs up what others say about APR tune being the "go to" one for our Tigs (at the moment anyway), although I'm sure Viezu will keep working on theirs to get it to where it needs to be....

[Transporter]

Great to hear you've finally got a result
Possibly not as much straight out power as expected, but certainly looks to be a more useable tune for around town - certainly backs up what others say about APR tune being the "go to" one for our Tigs (at the moment anyway), although I'm sure Viezu will keep working on theirs to get it to where it needs to be....

Hmm, not for those who don't want to get their ECU opened. I can do the TSI Tiguans over the port now, with Autologic. They should be as smooth as silk and very linear too. I enjoy mine in T5 every day. The disadvantage of the Autologic is they have only stage 1, but on average you get +30kW increase and +70-90Nm torque. And there should be no mishaps, the Autologic is the safest way to remap your engine ECU.

[tigger73]

Great to hear you've finally got a result
Possibly not as much straight out power as expected, but certainly looks to be a more useable tune for around town - certainly backs up what others say about APR tune being the "go to" one for our Tigs (at the moment anyway), although I'm sure Viezu will keep working on theirs to get it to where it needs to be....

Well as the old saying goes if you can't beat them, then join them.

I'm still not 100% on the power output. I think there may be a couple of factors at play here.

First I suspect there is quite significant driveline loss in the DQ500 / AWD system. I'm hoping some other people may be able to quantify this by dyno testing of a stock DQ500 Tig.

The other factor is like you Tiggy1 I have slightly oversize tyres (my speedo now reads true). I know this will make a slight difference and if it is 5% I'm chasing then this may well be the 5% variance right here.

I do have my old wheels still in the shed and if I was super keen I'd put these on and run it on the dyno again but I know talking to the dyno guys it will change the result.

So I'm thinking case closed even though there's still some unanswered questions. The proof of the pudding is in the driving and I'm very happy with how my car drives with the stage 2+ APR tune.

Now to bolt my other bits of hardware (back) on and enjoy driving my car at last!


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[Tiggy1]

Yep, and at the end of the day that's what it's all about - enjoying the drive
On another note (and apologies if it's covered elsewhere), Autologic have obviously cracked the ECU security to tune through the OBD Transporter? Or, have they found another way around it?

[Transporter]

Yep, and at the end of the day that's what it's all about - enjoying the drive
On another note (and apologies if it's covered elsewhere), Autologic have obviously cracked the ECU security to tune through the OBD Transporter? Or, have they found another way around it?

All goes over the OBD2. Yes, they don't just hack for the tuning, the Autologic's team of VAG software engineers can also repair other software in many control modules and much more.

Sent from my GT-N8000

[tigger73]

All goes over the OBD2. Yes, they don't just hack for the tuning, the Autologic's team of VAG software engineers can repair other software in many control modules and much more.

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Transporter checked my car last week and it is now readable over the port. Every other time it hasn't allowed it so my ECU should now be port tunable.... Just needed to wait


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[Transporter]

Transporter checked my car last week and it is now readable over the port. Every other time it hasn't allowed it so my ECU should now be port tunable.... Just needed to wait


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Yes, at least with Autologic.
Was your APR tune done over the OBD2 port?
Many late models cars that I have serviced lately are OBD2 tuneable with Autologic, so I would say that they must have been busy developing the tunes for the late models.

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[tigger73]

Yes, at least with Autologic.
Was your APR tune done over the OBD2 port?
Many late models cars that I have serviced lately are OBD2 tuneable with Autologic, so I would say that they must have been busy developing the tunes for the late models.

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I believe it was readable but they still couldn't write... So halfway there.

So yes I think people have been busy cracking these RCUs so they don't need to be bench tuned. Would have made my life so much easier if that was the case.




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[Guy_H]

Just posted up some K04 Tiguan Data above:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f177/tiguan-tsi-k04-upgrade-results-92358.html

From our in house dyno readings on DQ500 equipped cars (Tiguan & TTRS'), they pull out ~ another 6 - 8% over the manual variants when run in 4th or 5th gear.

Very happy with Damian's run - this was a production file, off the shelf - same as every other APR Tiguan around the country is running. One flash & done.

[Lucas_R]

I'd say your on about 185-190kw at the engine/flywheel which is about all you will get out of the K03. I'd be more inclined to say a 20-25% drive train loss through the gearbox and AWD system.

On another note I suspect (and am still to have this confirmed) that there may be quite substantial drive-line losses in the DQ500 gearbox. If everything is working as it should on my car, the engine "should" be putting out close to 200kW. Assuming 30% driveline losses would give 140kwaw.

[tigger73]

I'd say your on about 185-190kw at the engine/flywheel which is about all you will get out of the K03. I'd be more inclined to say a 20-25% drive train loss through the gearbox and AWD system.

You could be right. I know APR is "nominally" 189kW with stage 1 so should be a few more with the DP. Still looking to get some good data on this. Unfortunately I didn't get a "stock" dyno done so I don't have a good benchmark

I have been talking to Guy at APR and he reckons the DQ500 has larger driveline losses than both DQ200 and DQ250 so it will take out more than you Golf boys normally lose. Plus the AWD system on top so looks like I might need to put on a K04 to make up for it...

Although I'd love to it's a fair few $ and I really ought to be spending this on other projects around the house (or so my wife says).