Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Tom87]

Nothing wrong with a Toyota if you want a reliable and sensible car, and you're not really a 'car' person. But they are so incredibly boring in every way if you are a car person.

Of course it goes without saying I'm excluding the FT86 from that statement. About time they bought out a driver's car (must be 15 years or more since they had a proper driver's car in Oz)

Except I think the AE86 was an accidental cult car. It just so happened that the small RWD platforms of that era happened to be really light weight and Toyotas of that era were also ridiculously reliable. It was no more than a glorified shopping trolley back in the day?

The new FT86 is nothing like the original in my eyes. It shares a name and and a drive configuration and not much more. It is a real sports car. A cheap one designed to make them lots of money but a sports car nonetheless.

[Lucas_R]

A guy at work recently took delivery of a dark blue Toyota 86. Honestly it is the most stupid looking car ive ever seen. I walk past it in the carpark almost daily so ive looked at it many times trying to understand the appeal of it. It would want to be a bloody good drive for me to put up with such a cheap and tacky looking car.

- clear taillights = sooo early 2000's and been there done that
- pathetic cheese cutter wheels and tyres
- hideous cheap interior
- ridiculously oversized exhaust pipes x2

If i was going to go back to something like that id have my old S15 200sx back anyday over an 86. At least it looked good and could blow the 86 to the weeds in most situations.

[brad]

A guy at work recently took delivery of a dark blue Toyota 86. Honestly it is the most stupid looking car ive ever seen. I walk past it in the carpark almost daily so ive looked at it many times trying to understand the appeal of it. It would want to be a bloody good drive for me to put up with such a cheap and tacky looking car.

- clear taillights = sooo early 2000's and been there done that
- pathetic cheese cutter wheels and tyres
- hideous cheap interior
- ridiculously oversized exhaust pipes x2

If i was going to go back to something like that id have my old S15 200sx back anyday over an 86. At least it looked good and could blow the 86 to the weeds in most situations.

I agree with everything you say but i think it's in the driving, not the looks.

I know 2 people with them. One is bog-stock & he loves it. The other is extensively modded for track work & he's a happy camper too.

I also have another mate who gets his Subaru version in March. i believe he's fitting DS2500 pads & upgraded tyres immediately.

[WhiteJames]

MK7 Golf R's twin brother first U.K. review: Audi S3

New Audi S3 2013 review | Auto Express

May be a case of fast, but not so fun.

Cheers.
WJ

[Martin]

The Toyota 86 and the Mazda MX5 both have great handling but not enough power (by a decent margin)
It's a class you either love or are not interested in at all

[WhiteJames]

FT86/BRZ and MX5: Not much comes close for driver connection & involvement.
Here's another Audi S3 initial review conducted on smooth German roadways:

Audi S3 (2013) CAR review | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online

Cheers.
WJ

[andrew7]

Nice work WJ. Any idea when the Mk7 R will be unveiled?

[WhiteJames]

Later this year or early next year perhaps?

300bhp New VW Golf R tipped | Auto Express

Golf R could only be 100kg more than GTI for the MK7. Golf R also may receive the mechanical LSD from the Power-Pack GTI, with MK7 Golf R being perhaps slightly cheaper (in UK anyway where it's expensive -v- Aus), have 4 mufflers and fully disabling ESP, unlike the GTI. A fully loaded Golf GTI -v- standard Golf R may have the Golf R weight less than 100kg heavier.

Autocar talk more about the new Audi S3 first drive:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/audi-s3-s-tronic-first-drive-review

EVO Magazine initial Munich review of the Audi S3:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/288958/2013_audi_s3_review.html

Cheers.
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

. A fully loaded Golf GTI -v- standard Golf R may have the Golf R weight less than 100kg heavier.


Cheers.
WJ

LOLWHAT?

Golf R still looking like the pick of the hot hatch bunch, more range is entering the market but the R still is the best compromise for the money

[WhiteJames]

The initial Audi S3 drives indicate that the new MK7 Golf R with EA888 motor plus variable cam lifts/timing etc and better fueling will be a much more driveable vehicle esp. down low instant power and esp. so mated to a DSG gearbox that likes to shift into top gear asap. Although from a drivers perspective based on evo review or for improved economy based on MK7 Golf GTI MTrans gearing, the manual Golf R could still be the go. How the Golf R will compare to the Golf GTI Power-Pack LSD ... time will only tell.
Cheers.
WJ

[andrew7]

Thanks SF and WJ. I"ll be looking to upgrade from my Mk6 GTI to the Mk7 R when my lease is up in 18mths-2yrs (more power + AWD grip being my key selection points from GTI to R). Exciting times ahead given the excellent reviews the S3 has received to date.

[SilvrFoxX]

Needs to be pointed out that a stage 1 tune on an MKVI will give you the same performance figures being quoted on the new S3. Makes you wonder what a tune on the new S3 will yield

[WhiteJames]

I would not consider a tune for either a Mark 7 Golf GTI or R or anything else for that matter. What would be under consideration ... in addition to all the previous arguments we've had re: GTI -v- R, it that based on ride height settings and the broader appeal of the Golf GTI, the GTI is most likely going to require a set of VW Driver Gear Sport Springs + Bilstein Sport dampers to sharpen up the chassis a bit (non-DCC GTI would only need the DG Sport springs, but add $1500 to GTI price). Whereas the Golf R in MK6 or MK7 should have an optimal ride/handling suspension tune straight out of the factory esp. as a grand tourer fast-sports hatch. MK7 GTI + Power Pack + DG Sport Springs/Bilstein suspension may not be too far behind the R in price. On the other hand, service costs for the R make it more expensive to own regardless of fixed price servicing as I'd imagine that the fixed price servicing would reflect the extra cost of the service of the centre and rear diffs. Looks like the GTI + power pack would come with 18" as standard fitment to house the 17" brakes or as part of a package optimised for Aus. Standard Xenons on GTI also improves the price of the GTI -v- R.

Based on the comments earlier on driver involvement re: MX5, FT86/BRZ ... here's a video showing a car with attributes similar to the Golf GTI and to a lesser extent the Golf R where the new Renault Clio RS has been designed with high grip levels and DSG to broaden its appeal to more motorists -v- a motor vehicle designed from ground up for driver involvement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUlNvovXtVc

The Clio RS is faster, but does Steve Sutcliffe care? I'm still liking the fact that the BRZ/FT86 are less expensive to buy and less expensive to own while providing some added engagement.

Cheers.
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

There is no comparison to be had in regard to a sports car and a performance car. If you are hinting that the GTI has sports car tendencies then you are kidding yourself. The conversation is no longer GTI v R, time has dealt with most of the issues and the reality is many GTI drivers are as I said they would transitioning to the R. This is not because of any complex reasoning, they just want more power and bling.

The conversation now is going to be very much around the many entrants into the hot hatch market especially by the Germans as they are all at similar price points. Previously the R was on its own, and try as they may comparing it to the japanese rally icons was a stretch. Now we have the A45, the M135I, Opel and yes the S3 it is now becoming more interesting. You wont see comparisons with any of these marques with GTI nor the BRZ/86 MX5 as there is no comparison to have.

For the purists that love the GTI and the driving experience it offers all power to you.

[WhiteJames]

^
1. You haven't driven the current crop of Renault Sport Hatches?
2. All hatches are benchmarked against the GTI ... the GTI still comes out on top all else considered.
3. Many of those offerings above are not hot-hatches ... they are overpriced fast-hatches and sedans.
4. Many that take their Golf R's as serious hot-hatches generally fit a set of H&R adjustable sway bars (not ECU retunes) to dial out that over-indulgence in understeer at local public roadway speeds (not German Autobahn high speeds) ... hopefully the new MK7 Golf R will not be so understeery in chassis tune, otherwise that an added expense on the Mark 7 Golf R for a set of H&R bars re: value for money MK7 GTI -v- R.
Cheers.
WJ