Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[VWindahouse]

Just read a review in Motor Magazine iirc, and it said the MK7 GTI they drove was 1295kg so I don't think the R would be lighter unfortunately.

[richmurphy]

Iagree the R is set for a GT feel but you are never going to configure a Golf for a viseral driving experience, it is a golf! Honestly WJ you missed out by not getting the R, the GTI is a great ride and when the MK5 and 6 came out there was nothing in the same class hence all the accolades. However the landscape has changed and no amount of tweaking is going to stand the MK6 up against any of the new breed and for the money I would still get the R

It totally depends on what is driving your decision and to say he missed out by not buying the R is rather harsh. I bought the GTI over the R because I couldn't negotiate below $55k for the R and I got the GTI for $37,500. I liked the R more but not THAT much more. Personally, I'd rather stretch to $65-$70k and get a used 911 but horses for courses.

I also looked at the Megane and Focus ST and would've bought the Ford if they were willing to negotiate. The Renault was insane fun but with resale on the wrong side of ridiculous. So at the end of the day the GTI is still a great value package and if we weren't all price driven to some extent then I dare say this forum would be a ghost town.

[MovieDude]

Like!.

[SilvrFoxX]

Re: Golf R -v- Golf GTI

It totally depends on what is driving your decision and to say he missed out by not buying the R is rather harsh. I bought the GTI over the R because I couldn't negotiate below $55k for the R and I got the GTI for $37,500. I liked the R more but not THAT much more. Personally, I'd rather stretch to $65-$70k and get a used 911 but horses for courses.

I also looked at the Megane and Focus ST and would've bought the Ford if they were willing to negotiate. The Renault was insane fun but with resale on the wrong side of ridiculous. So at the end of the day the GTI is still a great value package and if we weren't all price driven to some extent then I dare say this forum would be a ghost town.

Very true, the dollar argument has been done to death, where it gets messy is the aguement that the R is comparable to the Gti and price is not reflective of difference. If you park the money conversation then everyone would agree that the R is better on every level. As this is not the case then there is all this rubbish about why the R is not as good. Bang for buck the GTI is number 1 almost bought one but it would have been a decision made with the head but the R is for the heart. So the thread has been largely built on this premis.

WJ has been banging on about his justification for not upgrading for years now, if you follow the story it really shows his latent desire to have an R . As I have always said from personal experience GTI drivers have a great, no fantastic car, just that an R driver will never sit and watch a GTI driver and wish he had bought one. Nothing more viseral in that feeling, everything else is moot

[parso_rex]

I'm Still waiting to see what the new R's/S3's internals are like. Hopefully they will still keep the same sort of over-engineering margin that the current R/S3 has with the GTI or I'm going to be very unhappy. This is a real decider with the current non VAG owners who are after looking at their vehicle replacment options in the performance car arena and I hope they(VAG) don't let this opportunity slip away.
Look at the plummeting sales figures of icons like the WRX and STI and EVO over the last few years, where have those sales gone ?, they've gone pretty much to the Golf R's and I do see this with some of our customers who I know personally from the Subaru scene. Its not completely a case of getting older and wanting a bit of 'class' either many are young guys that are seeing some real hard core options that just didn't exit a few years ago.

[WhiteJames]

EA888 motor in the Mark 7 Golf GTI for the North American market may be a little different from the European spec EA888 motor with port & direct injection only on the Euro-spec version re: emissions:

imgur: the simple image sharer

Audi S3 / Golf R MK7 will have beefed up in certain ways over that of the Mark 7 Golf GTI as illustrated in this link:

Tech Analysis: Next Generation 2.0 TFSI for New Audi S3 - Fourtitude.com

Don't you just wish you waited for the Mark 7 Golf R to arrive?

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

EA888 motor in the Mark 7 Golf GTI for the North American market may be a little different from the European spec EA888 motor with port & direct injection only on the Euro-spec version re: emissions:

imgur: the simple image sharer

Audi S3 / Golf R MK7 will have beefed up in certain ways over that of the Mark 7 Golf GTI as illustrated in this link:

Tech Analysis: Next Generation 2.0 TFSI for New Audi S3 - Fourtitude.com



Cheers.
WJ

[Tobes_WIR35]

Look at the plummeting sales figures of icons like the WRX and STI and EVO over the last few years, where have those sales gone ?, they've gone pretty much to the Golf R's and I do see this with some of our customers who I know personally from the Subaru scene. Its not completely a case of getting older and wanting a bit of 'class' either many are young guys that are seeing some real hard core options that just didn't exit a few years ago.

The price of the STI and EVO is insane. I priced an STI hatch before I got my GTI, it was over $70k. I nearly fell over. Yeah it's a fast car, but that's really all it's got going for it. It's rough, ugly and poorly finished. One could have a fully optioned R with change left over for some performance upgrades and end up with a faster and much nicer all round car.

[AdamD]

wow - 1200kg's - I hope that's not a typo in the Autocar article

I've read a number of articles today from alternate sources, and they each state that the Mk7 R is expected to weigh in at 100kg more than the Mk7 GTI - so 1400kg give or take, depending on spec - which reduces the weight difference between GTI and R by 50kg.

[richmurphy]

Very true, the dollar argument has been done to death, where it gets messy is the aguement that the R is comparable to the Gti and price is not reflective of difference. If you park the money conversation then everyone would agree that the R is better on every level. As this is not the case then there is all this rubbish about why the R is not as good. Bang for buck the GTI is number 1 almost bought one but it would have been a decision made with the head but the R is for the heart. So the thread has been largely built on this premis.

WJ has been banging on about his justification for not upgrading for years now, if you follow the story it really shows his latent desire to have an R . As I have always said from personal experience GTI drivers have a great, no fantastic car, just that an R driver will never sit and watch a GTI driver and wish he had bought one. Nothing more viseral in that feeling, everything else is moot

If both cars were priced equally then I'd expect very few on this forum to own a GTI. Understeer... whatever. To be expected on a road car.

For what it's worth, if I had forked out the extra $17k for the R then I probably would look at the GTI and wish I'd bought that instead because it's more than sufficient for my needs. I'd probably look at a 911 and kick myself for not spending another $20k. Then I'd kick myself for not spending another $30k for the 911 S. But my wife would kill me...

[AdamD]

If both cars were priced equally then I'd expect very few on this forum to own a GTI. Understeer... whatever. To be expected on a road car.

You'd certainly expect that to be the case - the R is more powerful, with better brakes and better traction. Although the R will understeer just as much as - if not more so than - a GTI, as it's predominantly set up with a strong FWD bias, is heavier, and will ultimately just push (unless it's had haldex and/or suspension mods). The GTI, on the other hand, is significantly lighter, more flexible and neutral on the limit. I reckon it's a lot of fun on the road, although even the GTI is super-tame on the track.

Of course the R is ultimately faster. That's more important for most keyboard warriors.

[richmurphy]

You'd certainly expect that to be the case - the R is more powerful, with better brakes and better traction. Although the R will understeer just as much as - if not more so than - a GTI, as it's predominantly set up with a strong FWD bias, is heavier, and will ultimately just push (unless it's had haldex and/or suspension mods). The GTI, on the other hand, is significantly lighter, more flexible and neutral on the limit. I reckon it's a lot of fun on the road, although even the GTI is super-tame on the track.

Of course the R is ultimately faster. That's more important for most keyboard warriors.

If you want mind bending performance on a track, don't bother with a road car. Save your cash for mods and buy a kart or better yet, one of these: West Race Cars Australia - Used West Race Cars

[AdamD]

If you want mind bending performance on a track, don't bother with a road car.

Absolutely! I've driven a Formula Ford at Mallala, and the handling performance is in another league - it simply doesn't compare to your average road-registerable car. But as a daily driver the Golf is such a great compromise - comfortable and refined when you need it, and then entertaining and rapid when you're keen to have a go. Both the GTI and the R exhibit these traits in spades.

[richmurphy]

Okay so our answer to the original "GTI vs R" question is.... buy a racing car. Can we close this thread now or shall we debate for another 3 years?

[Ideo]

Don't you just wish you waited for the Mark 7 Golf R to arrive?

Cheers.
WJ

No. Because I needed a car in 2011, not 2014.