Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[SilvrFoxX]

Re: Golf R -v- Golf GTI

You are reaching now the GTI glory days are a thing of the past

[Tom87]

What glory days?

The only recent GTI that was any good was the mk5, and only until about 2007 where the competition finally caught up.

[SilvrFoxX]

Well those are the days I am referencing as that is what WJ is talking about.. but that model is what 7-8 years old now and has been refined with the MKVI. And it is the situation now, the GTI has been the benchmark by which others have set the bar but now they are all but surely moving past it..

[Ideo]

What glory days?

The only recent GTI that was any good was the mk5, and only until about 2007 where the competition finally caught up.

You own a Mk5 GTI don't you?

The Mk 6 is respected by everyone except Mk5 owners. I wonder why?

[Tweeked]

I had the MK5 GTI and the difference between MK5 and 6 is very small.. The MK6 is a slightly improved all round. I can confirm this officially as a owner of both.
Stiff competition for the R with the A45 and 135i but not in price..... the R is great value.

[Tom87]

You own a Mk5 GTI don't you?

The Mk 6 is respected by everyone except Mk5 owners. I wonder why?

Yes, but "bzzzt" if it is jealousy you are alluding to. lol not quite.

I think what some people are saying (and I agree with them) if you compare the current crop of hot hatches the GTI comes up very short when it comes to the pissing contest of speed and handling because the basic attributes they're using are pretty much the same as what they released in 2005.

VW must realise this as they're very clearly addressing this in the Mk7 with a significant power increase and the option of a more performance oriented package including a mechanical traction aid. I doubt the handling will change much though. The Golf drives like a Golf just as the ad says and I think they'd be very cautious to make it more wayward aka "fun" as per some of the competition like the Focus ST or Meganne RS.

The Mk6 R represents a tasty performance upgrade from the GTI, I can understand why people go for them. Plus they look alot nicer. I think those that claim there isn't a major performance difference have forgotten that FWD generally sucks. My next car could be a Mk6 R...we'll see. I'm starting to have struggles with sensibility over-powering my desires and that ghastly Toyota badge keeps winking at me (sends shivers down my spine)

[WhiteJames]

The chassis design for the MK5 and MK6 are the same thing ... ditto GTI and R. Here's the lowdown on chassis balance for the Audi S3 (aka MK7 Golf R): Audi A3 S3 Sportback 5-dr hatch - Audi S3 priced from $65k | GoAuto

The new model is also 70kg lighter than before, thanks to the Volkswagen Group's new modular transverse MQB platform – the regular A3 was the first car to use it – and extensive use of aluminium in the bodyshell.

The company claims to have sharpened the handling by shifting the front axle further forward – thus reducing the front overhang – chopping five kilograms from the engine’s weight and tilting the block back 12 degrees.

Special sport suspension that lowers the body by 25mm, a 59:41 axle-load distribution front/rear and a speed-sensitive electro-mechanical power steering system also join the party.

Maybe the ManTrans Golf R will not be more economical than the DSG.

Maybe VW will dial some understeer out the Golf R for the Mk7 version, which would be good for local conditions.

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Golf R -v- EVO - STI - BMW 135i:

Apparently, up to 100 per cent of torque can be fed to the back boots. It doesn’t feel that way. The Golf R has stacks of grip from its 18-inch Bridgestone Potenza tyres, but push past the limits of adhesion and it proves a blunt tool. There’s understeer in abundance, and no amount of aggressive-steering inputs to invoke a playful attitude will fix that. It never feels like the Golf R is doing anything with its rear end – even a Golf GTI, with less grip at both ends, moves around more with its driver. The Volkswagen Golf R seems quite the bargain, given that it’s $20K cheaper than its fellow German. But it actually appears overpriced when it’s only marginally quicker and barely any more fun than a regular Golf GTI.

My sentiments exactly.

Sports Car Comparison: BMW M135i v Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution v Subaru WRX STI v Volkswagen Golf R | CarAdvice

Cheers.
WJ

[Ideo]

Yes, but "bzzzt" if it is jealousy you are alluding to. lol not quite.

I think what some people are saying (and I agree with them) if you compare the current crop of hot hatches the GTI comes up very short when it comes to the pissing contest of speed and handling because the basic attributes they're using are pretty much the same as what they released in 2005.

VW must realise this as they're very clearly addressing this in the Mk7 with a significant power increase and the option of a more performance oriented package including a mechanical traction aid. I doubt the handling will change much though. The Golf drives like a Golf just as the ad says and I think they'd be very cautious to make it more wayward aka "fun" as per some of the competition like the Focus ST or Meganne RS.

The Mk6 R represents a tasty performance upgrade from the GTI, I can understand why people go for them. Plus they look alot nicer. I think those that claim there isn't a major performance difference have forgotten that FWD generally sucks. My next car could be a Mk6 R...we'll see. I'm starting to have struggles with sensibility over-powering my desires and that ghastly Toyota badge keeps winking at me (sends shivers down my spine)

I don't disagree - but when the Mk6 was launched it was ahead of the game. Now it's not. Same with the mkV- arguably the original Megane 225 Cup was a far better hot hatch - and it is better to drive. Less good as an all rounder though.

[WhiteJames]

Apparently, up to 100 per cent of torque can be fed to the back boots. It doesn’t feel that way. The Golf R has stacks of grip from its 18-inch Bridgestone Potenza tyres, but push past the limits of adhesion and it proves a blunt tool. There’s understeer in abundance, and no amount of aggressive-steering inputs to invoke a playful attitude will fix that. It never feels like the Golf R is doing anything with its rear end – even a Golf GTI, with less grip at both ends, moves around more with its driver. The Volkswagen Golf R seems quite the bargain, given that it’s $20K cheaper than its fellow German. But it actually appears overpriced when it’s only marginally quicker and barely any more fun than a regular Golf GTI.

The MK6 Golf R needs a set of H&R adjustable sway bars to bring it closer to the competition re: STI - EVO - BMW 135i or anything else for that matter. The MK6 Golf R is set up for super fast autobahn's with heaps of understeer ... not an issue in this country. Best to tune the chassis for local conditions with the bars. Hopefully VW may address this with the MK7 Golf R. The EA888 will also solve a few issues, although imo the Golf R nor GTI need to be any faster, just more entertaining & visceral to drive.
Cheers .
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

Re: Golf R -v- Golf GTI

That caradvice review was the Crpiest piece of garbage I have ever read . At no point was there a comparison of any relative nature. Banging on about suspension mods also doesn't add wieght to your argument. Reality is you had to do this to compensate for the GTI being FWD and it skips all
over the place

The R isn't a wet handling dream and does understeer but I would still have it over a GTI for all the other upgrades and refinement over it's Little brother.

Iagree the R is set for a GT feel but you are never going to configure a Golf for a viseral driving experience, it is a golf! Honestly WJ you missed out by not getting the R, the GTI is a great ride and when the MK5 and 6 came out there was nothing in the same class hence all the accolades. However the landscape has changed and no amount of tweaking is going to stand the MK6 up against any of the new breed and for the money I would still get the R

[WhiteJames]

Autocar.co.uk scoop of the Mark 7 Golf R

Much like the R32 coming before the Golf R, time may not judge the MK6 Golf R favourably in stock form. On the other hand ... the new Mark 7 Golf R has lots of goodies including lighter weight wheels, EA888 motor and the ability to slot a tow bar on the tail gate in between the quad pipes ... here's some pics of the new MK7 Golf R due out in early 2014:

New VW Golf R scooped | Autocar

I keep hearing the the MK7 Golf R will weigh in at 1200kg ... maybe the autocar.co.uk journo is hitting the incorrect buttons on the calculator?

Cheers
WJ

[Tom87]

towbar sounds fun. that means i'll be able to have my Golf R and a trailer with some Jet skis as well!

lol

Now if only they could do an R diesel...hahaha

[Allegiance]

Golf R -v- Golf GTI

I hope they keep the twin centre exhausts


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[Guy_H]

wow - 1200kg's - I hope that's not a typo in the Autocar article