Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Ryeman]

Compensation for used car price falling? Please!
When you buy a new car, you do not buy any guarantee of its future value. You accept all the risk associated with the outlay of funds. You might choose to insure it against damage, but that's up to you. Regardless you accept the risk.
If VW sold double the number of cars this year and for the next 5 years, that would put similar downward pressure on used car values. Would you then have cause to want compensation?
Why people are so litigious these days I cannot fathom. The world doesn't owe you anything.

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Even VW management don't see it your way....then there are the legal aspects of 'failure to disclose' which the lawyers are salivating over.

[greymad]

The VW automotive group might be able to soften its financial blow by selling "Pardon my NOx" bumper stickers...

[Amalgam]

The ACCC are reviewing the matter

Dieselgate: ACCC issues statement on VW emissions saga – Car Reviews, News & Advice - CarPoint Australia..

On a personal note, I am a little miffed that I was lied to. Trust is very difficult to obtain and so easy to lose. A car is usually the second most expensive purchase that most of us will ever make. I bought our Passat as my wife's family wagon, where safety and reliability are paramount. VW have actively and knowing cheated the system, and even when alerted by Bosch that their code was illegal, elected to install the code.

Dieselgate: Bosch says VW knew – Car Reviews, News & Advice - CarPoint Australia..

What other shady things have VW done. We all buy our cars on it's reputation and trust that the manufacturer will do the right thing. We are all aware that a car is a deadly piece of machinery. As an example, what if a manufacturer change the supplier for the brake pads to save a few dollars, and these pads stopped the car 1 metre longer. 1 metre can make the difference between a near miss and hospitalisation and severe lifelong whiplash. I know, as I am the victim of someone running up the back of me.

If I wanted a dodgier car, I could have bought a Great Wall, which has been recalled for seat belts and asbestos in the brake pads and the head gasket.

End of Rant

[Transporter]

The ACCC are reviewing the matter

Dieselgate: ACCC issues statement on VW emissions saga – Car Reviews, News & Advice - CarPoint Australia..

On a personal note, I am a little miffed that I was lied to. Trust is very difficult to obtain and so easy to lose. A car is usually the second most expensive purchase that most of us will ever make. I bought our Passat as my wife's family wagon, where safety and reliability are paramount. VW have actively and knowing cheated the system, and even when alerted by Bosch that their code was illegal, elected to install the code.

Dieselgate: Bosch says VW knew – Car Reviews, News & Advice - CarPoint Australia..

What other shady things have VW done. We all buy our cars on it's reputation and trust that the manufacturer will do the right thing. We are all aware that a car is a deadly piece of machinery. As an example, what if a manufacturer change the supplier for the brake pads to save a few dollars, and these pads stopped the car 1 meter longer. 1 meter can make the difference between a near miss and hospitalisation and severe lifelong whiplash. I know, as I am the victim of someone running up the back of me.

If I wanted a dodgier car, I could have bought a Great Wall, which has been recalled for seat belts and asbestos in the brake pads and the head gasket.

End of Rant

Please enlighten me, how in the question (supposedly) higher than allowed emissions in US affect your safety in AU?

... and it's never to late to get that Great Wall. I'm sure that someone will be very happy with your secondhand Passat.

[ParaBul]

It's called "misrepresentation".

When we bought our diesel VAG vehicles they were both economical, and (reasonably) good on emissions in general.

Now the world knows that they're not so good on emissions.

If these "dirtier" vehicles have a lower retained value now that they're not quite so "green" then owners are legally entitled to be "restored" to the position that they would be in had the misrepresentation not been made.

What does this mean? If my car was worth $25k before this scandal broke, and is worth $20k afterwards, then I am entitled to receive $25k. If I get $20k from the sale, then Volkswagen make up the difference. That's for "innocent misrepresentation" - Volkswagen genuinely did not know of the deceit.

Arguably, the misrepresentation is "fraudulent" (they knowingly lied) or "negligent" - they didn't know, but they had a duty to know. In either of these cases, I'm legally entitled to be restored to my original position, plus compensation - for fear, angst, anxiety, insecurity, bed-wetting, insomnia, teeth grinding, weight gain, PTSD, body odour and the social stigma that comes from being the owner of a diesel Volkswagen, amongst other things.

By this time next year, I'll be independently wealthy and able to retire.

[Amalgam]

I am not here to get into a full and frank discussion.

Please enlighten me, how in the question (supposedly) higher than allowed emissions in US affect your safety in AU?

VW have admitted to 500,000 affected cars in the US and 11 million cars worldwide.

As per my earlier post, once trust is lost by the systematic, long term and continued deception by ANY company even in the face of strongly worded correspondence from the supplier that your code may be illegal, it should give us all pause to reflect.

This applies to ALL companies we deal with whether they manufacture cars, washing machines or toothpaste.

I am very happy with our Passat. It provides good performance with excellent fuel economy. I am concerned that the fix, by the way of a software update will restrict the engine to operate only in the 'emissions test mode' and thereby comply with emissions standards.

VW were able to comply with emissions standards, but deliberately chose not to.

I suspect that the 'emissions test mode' is less than ideal in any or all of the following parameters.

1/ fuel economy
2/ drivability and performance
3/ durability and maintenance

One thought is that they may adjust EGR time to reduce NOx and thereby increase coking or richen the air/fuel mixture to cool down combustion temps.

As my car is no longer covered by the manufacturers warranty, I am considering taking our car to a non dealer specialist where the upgrade patch will not be applied.

[Transporter]

I rather wait for more facts, than jump to conclusions like many of you guys here, worrying about the things that didn't happen yet.

But, here is something to consider as well. It's not really up to date article on a very similar topic.
Cow 'emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars - Climate Change - Environment - The Independent

[team_v]

I rather wait for more facts, than jump to conclusions like many of you guys here, worrying about the things that didn't happen yet.

But, here is something to consider as well. It's not really up to date article on a very similar topic.
Cow 'emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars - Climate Change - Environment - The Independent

There is also this:
World's 15 Biggest Ships Create More Pollution Than All The Cars In The World - Industry Tap

[Eaglen00b]

There is also this:
World's 15 Biggest Ships Create More Pollution Than All The Cars In The World - Industry Tap

Fair enough. But deception is still deception. The world awaits what legal repercussions follow from VW's conduct.

Plenty of concerned VAG diesel owners out there no doubt watching very closely.

[Eaglen00b]

As my car is no longer covered by the manufacturers warranty, I am considering taking our car to a non dealer specialist where the upgrade patch will not be applied.

Mine still has about a year or so of warranty left to run, and is due for the 60k service. I'll get it done at the VW service centre now, and address any niggles the car may have to make sure she's absolutely tip top shape. Then I'll wait out this storm and see what happens. If they're gonna patch software, then flurk going back to VW for servicing. Will also go to a non dealer specialist where I can specify NOT to upgrade the EMS.

I really hope VW pulls their finger out and sort this mess out sooner rather than later.

[centralaxis]

Fair enough. But deception is still deception. The world awaits what legal repercussions follow from VW's conduct.

Plenty of concerned VAG diesel owners out there no doubt watching very closely.

Can't say I'm concerned as a diesel owner. As long as the car doesn't break down and I get my 1000km/tank in Sydney traffic I'm happy.

While monitoring the situation, I am very sceptical that this has come out of California which has the strictest emissions guidelines in the US and Mr Tesla has come out beating his chest over it.

Also, I've just finished a subject for my MBA on ethics, guidelines and sustainability. I agree that VW haven't been transparent and will pay the price for their behaviour through fines, lost sales and customers but I hated that subject/lecturer so I hope VW sends me a "BACK OFF, NITROUS OXIDE POLLUTER" bumper sticker so I get BMW drivers off my back in traffic.

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[Eaglen00b]

Can't say I'm concerned as a diesel owner. As long as the car doesn't break down and I get my 1000km/tank in Sydney traffic I'm happy.

While monitoring the situation, I am very sceptical that this has come out of California which has the strictest emissions guidelines in the US and Mr Tesla has come out beating his chest over it.

Also, I've just finished a subject for my MBA on ethics, guidelines and sustainability. I agree that VW haven't been transparent and will pay the price for their behaviour through fines, lost sales and customers but I hated that subject/lecturer so I hope VW sends me a "BACK OFF, NITROUS OXIDE POLLUTER" bumper sticker so I get BMW drivers off my back in traffic.

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Bimmer drivers? Try self righteous Hybrid vehicle drivers and push bikers.

My other car is a 1995 Normally aspirated, old tech, 2.8 tonne 4.2L diesel 4x4. Punch the accelerator, and watch me disappear into a massive black sooty cloud. NOx? CO2? Yippee ki yay munterflucker!

[dero]

I am not here to get into a full and frank discussion.

Then why participate in this discussion thread? You seem to have posted something decently detailed and frank in opinion.

Anyhoo...

On another forum someone searched up the emissions requirements of Australia and we're running Euro 5 standards. Based on the calculation of the NOx emissions regulations in the US of 0.07g and the statement that the engines were pushing out up to 35x more, the emissions of the TDI engines would breach Euro 5 standards, thus failing our regulations too.

VW Australia are wisely "waiting on word from HQ" which I interpret to saying "holy spit", we need time to formulate the plan on how to manage rectification in recall and what has to occur in recalling the vehicles.

If it's a fix an inclusion of AdBlue, retrofitting the equipment, routing the cables and coding the ECU and factoring the labour costs in achieving this process vs paying owner's compensation and/or fines due to breaching emissions regulations...

As an owner of an affected vehicle, I will sit tight and wait for an announcement.

Vehicle emissions are a minor contribution to the overall emissions that gets belched out into the atmosphere. As linked in through above posts, cows and ships put more pollution into our atmosphere. Airlines buzzing around belch lots of exhaust out as well. I recall reading an article saying that when the Icelandic volcano was erupting and it halted the majority of flights around Europe, people said that this was good for the environment without so many flights however the facts were that the volcano was dishing out more emissions than all the jets combined.

Same goes for Formula 1... all this money had been spent in the last couple of years getting hybrid powertrains to go racing with and the net sum of it all was a reduction in fuel consumption and exhaust emissions for the whole calendar year's race which would be more than made up for in one jumbo jet carting all the equipment around the world to let the teams go racing in.

It's ultimately a storm in a teacup. A decently sized teacup and a very personal teacup but still a very small storm for the overall effects that come across towards the environment.

[wai]

On another forum someone searched up the emissions requirements of Australia and we're running Euro 5 standards. Based on the calculation of the NOx emissions regulations in the US of 0.07g and the statement that the engines were pushing out up to 35x more, the emissions of the TDI engines would breach Euro 5 standards, thus failing our regulations too.

But this level is when operated with the drive cycle specified in the standard.

People are jumping on the x35 figure and saying that VW has to comply with that. This only has to happen if that level of emissions are measured when undertaking the standard test with all conditions set out in the test.

This is where VW made a huge error of judgement. They decided to take the attitude that it is better to admit something, even if not true rather than protest innocence and have the matter be long and drawn out.

All a car manufacturer has to do is meet the requirements of the standard they have to meet. No manufacturer can be expected to meet the emission levels in the standard, but "never mind about all the other conditions of the standard". The tests conducted by the researchers are outside the standard ANY vehicle manufacturer has to meet, and are not well documented.

Even when the original drive cycle was developed in the very early 1970s, it was NEVER concluded that once certified, the vehicles would achieve the same emission levels in normal use. The standard set levels that were progressively below the raw data obtained when the standard was developed. It was argued that if there was a 10% reduction over the base levels measured using the drive cycle, in service, there was a good chance that there would be a similar percentage reduction in emission levels.

Of course, things have moved on from carburettors, mechanical distributors and a single ignition coil to now where is it multiple computers and a whole mess of sensors. About the only variable item on an engine was the mechanical/vacuum advance in the distributor, and a bi-metallic spring that directed heat from the exhaust to the intake to help fuel vapourise when operated cold. As the engine warmed up, the spring moved a vane away from the base of the inlet manifold.

Vehicle emissions are a minor contribution to the overall emissions that gets belched out into the atmosphere. As linked in through above posts, cows and ships put more pollution into our atmosphere. Airlines buzzing around belch lots of exhaust out as well. I recall reading an article saying that when the Icelandic volcano was erupting and it halted the majority of flights around Europe, people said that this was good for the environment without so many flights however the facts were that the volcano was dishing out more emissions than all the jets combined.

True. Much is made about the emissions being "belched" out by these tainted diesels. Even if there were NO controls over diesel exhaust emissions from cars, there would be no measurable change in NOx levels in the most heavily polluted areas.

It's ultimately a storm in a teacup. A decently sized teacup and a very personal teacup but still a very small storm for the overall effects that come across towards the environment.

I think that the situation has been made a lot worse that it is by poorly handled PR. I did some work for a company that had a run in with an environment agency. They had done nothing wrong. In fact the air leaving the facility was cleaner and contained less odours than the air drawn into the facility. The mistake they made was to throw their doors open and say they had "nothing to hide". Two years later and after spending over $1,000,000 on lawyers, the agency accepted they had got it wrong and there was no rogue discharge. They handed back the $500,000 penalty and offered a handshake and said "no hard feelings"! The company has never rebounded from that.

[bluey]

There i another ICCT study 2014 with more vehicles than the original
[Press release] New ICCT study shows real-world exhaust emissions from modern diesel cars seven times higher than EU, US regulatory limits | International Council on Clean Transportation