Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

[kawabanga]

I've tried with Bardhal C60 5W30 Low Saps, but the consumption didn't change....

[readerr0r]

I wonder how Penrite's "Extra Ten" fares in these engines.

Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil

It only has 502.505 Approval, but thats fine if you're not on longlife servicing (ie Australia).

[kawabanga]

I really don't think it's a problem of oil, the problem it's on the engine!
Here we have a lot of examples of people who tried to change brand, viscosity, mineral, semi-synthetic, specification, etc, etc, but nothing changed...
Furthermore, this engine has high swings in oil consumption, depending on the way is driven, external temps and many other factors not always easely understandable, so I think that if you noticed variations those are not due to a different kind of oil...

Basically I agree with Varnak when he says that "the cave/cthe engines a major failure of the group. I consider their chosen path of action (act like nothing happened and deal with its case separately instead of a redesign and recall ) an insult."

[Varnak]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

Update on mine, 2000kms of really driving the car enjoyably, 1.5mm drop on the dipstick of Liqui Moly. Compared to Castrol Edge Longlife Professional (half the dipstick) in the same kms with far less spirited driving, proves to me that the Castrol product is rubbish in this engine, only reinforcing the fact is that recently VW released a statement now saying recommended fill is now Fuchs TITAN C3.

Castrol for me? No f**king way!

Factory fill is repsol for Seat, oil does not make such a huge difference in my experience.

Bare in mind that dealers stock different approved brands per brand name. Audi has Kolben (rebranded divinol), seat dealers had divinol , now have castrol , same for VW they use Castrol. That is why lubricants adhere to standards certified by third parties. Anything that covers vw504 is good enough.

In my experience with three different oil brands i noticed very minor differences.

1.5 mm is about 200ml so you are consuming about a lt/ 10k.

[Varnak]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

I really don't think it's a problem of oil, the problem it's on the engine!
Here we have a lot of examples of people who tried to change brand, viscosity, mineral, semi-synthetic, specification, etc, etc, but nothing changed...
Furthermore, this engine has high swings in oil consumption, depending on the way is driven, external temps and many other factors not always easely understandable, so I think that if you noticed variations those are not due to a different kind of oil...

Basically I agree with Varnak when he says that "the cave/cthe engines a major failure of the group. I consider their chosen path of action (act like nothing happened and deal with its case separately instead of a redesign and recall ) an insult."

My friend for me is dead simple what is going on here. The twincharger engine was, in euro4 format, an excellent unit with the only criticism from rivals being its high emissions. Here in Europe emissions are of high importance since we are getting taxed based on them. Also note that the last cavd engine could not go to production (being marginally euro 5 on the scirocco).

60 per cent of the mechanical losses of internal combustion engines are due to cylinder piston ring contact. What to you do to reduce emissions ? You reduce tension between the two. Well in theory that produced the perfect engine with 138grams/ almost 200 hp stock and consumption only up by 10% when compared with cavd units ( still very sensible). In practice though they failed to accommodate for the rapid boost build up of the compressor with the new piston/piston rings setup, thus the screw up.
Can they sort the problem? Of course it is dead simple: just change the piston and piston rings back to CAVD specs, there! Problem sorted.

Can they solve the problem and meet emissions standards as advertised? NOT A CHANCE. Thus they are pretending nothing is wrong as a strategic decision. The VAG group would not admit to such a major engineering screw up. They will happily change as many engines as you want while in warranty until they produce the mk6 polo/mk6 ibiza with a new engine line up.

This is accordance to their first attempted fix of installing thicker piston rings ( i.e higher tension) but obviously that was not well thought out either, or not well executed by dealers.

So if you like the car and want to keep it, find a good local garage buy 4 piston and piston ring sets from a CAVD engine and off you go. A lot of guys down here have done just that and solved their consumption issues. Some even tried aftermarket piston ring sets and that solved the problem. Of course you need to re-hone the cylinder walls before installation.


Sorry for the long post but hopefully it brings some light into what is going and a propose a tested solution.

[kaanage]

60 per cent of the mechanical losses of internal combustion engines are due to cylinder piston ring contact. What to you do to reduce emissions ? You reduce tension between the two. Well in theory that produced the perfect engine with 138grams/ almost 200 hp stock and consumption only up by 10% when compared with cavd units ( still very sensible). In practice though they failed to accommodate for the rapid boost build up of the compressor with the new piston/piston rings setup, thus the screw up.

Finally something that makes sense of the whole situation. Thanks for that enlightening post - I had thought that VAG had simply leaned out the fuel delivery for the 118 TSI Golf and that was causing the problems with that car but it was puzzling why the Polo GTi seemed to be still afflicted with the same issues.

[readerr0r]

Finally something that makes sense of the whole situation. Thanks for that enlightening post - I had thought that VAG had simply leaned out the fuel delivery for the 118 TSI Golf and that was causing the problems with that car but it was puzzling why the Polo GTi seemed to be still afflicted with the same issues.

Yeah I never really understood why the 125kW MK5 GT engine is so solid compared to the newer one, thanks Varnak!

[gavs]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

For sure I agree that for maybe 80% of afflicted engines the actual design is the issue. It is just glaringly obvious also that the original recommended oil (as recommended by the filler cap) is not up to task in this engine.

Toyota had exactly the same issue with their V8 turbo diesels not long ago and once they changed to Castrol Diesel GTX oil, oil consumption dropped. Sometimes the oil can make a difference.

[kevinctr]

For sure I agree that for maybe 80% of afflicted engines the actual design is the issue. It is just glaringly obvious also that the original recommended oil (as recommended by the filler cap) is not up to task in this engine.

Toyota had exactly the same issue with their V8 turbo diesels not long ago and once they changed to Castrol Diesel GTX oil, oil consumption dropped. Sometimes the oil can make a difference.

Yes, the oil does make a difference even when both have the 504/507 specs. Like I have shared with the rest here, I break-in my engine with normal Mobil1 5w30 oil by pushing the engine hard and do frequent oil changes during the break-in period. Its beyong my imagination how the factory oil can be left in your precious engines with those metal shavings for 15,000km... I got them out as early as 500km.

I recently upgraded to a Penzzoil/Quaker state/Shell 5w30 EuroL 504/507 specs oil. It makes the engine smoother, quieter and the oil temperature rises and cools better than the normal Mobil1 hands down. Too bad I do not have a oil pressure gauge in this Polo which I have on my previous Hondas...or it will show the difference even better. Try this oil as it has one of the lowest evaporation rates on test.

[Varnak]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

It is just glaringly obvious also that the original recommended oil (as recommended by the filler cap) is not up to task in this engine.

No it is not obvious. Not to me anyway, after having tested 4 different brands that adhere to the correct standard i found no difference worth mentioning.
You have no evidence whatsoever for this claim Gav, or at least a working hypothesis m8. Why ppl that have swapped castrol for another brand still consume oil?
The problem does not lie with the oil but with engine design, until you understand this VW will be giving ya the cold shoulder.

[RoknRob]

Re: Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

No it is not obvious. Not to me anyway, after having tested 4 different brands that adhere to the correct standard i found no difference worth mentioning.
You have no evidence whatsoever for this claim Gav, or at least a working hypothesis m8. Why ppl that have swapped castrol for another brand still consume oil?
The problem does not lie with the oil but with engine design, until you understand this VW will be giving ya the cold shoulder.

There certainly is a lot of anecdotal evidence on this forum from people who have swapped oil and had some improvement in their oil consumption. It doesn't eliminate the issue, so I don't think anyone considers it a fix to the underlying problem.

Until such time as a proper fix is available, it may be worth a try, to keep your engine from running completely dry. Or at least make it take longer.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

[Varnak]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

To me "anecdotal evidence" and " some improvement" in the same sentence form an oxymoron. This is not even close to empirical evidence.
For every story that someone thinks he saw an improvement using a different brand of oil, there are twice as many to counter it. Either way it means nothing. If it is not reproducible it is just an opinion and not a fact.
At least i would expect a working hypothesis to discuss.

I am not convinced at all...

We, at least, agree that oil brand is not the issue, but i don't think there will be a fix. Not from VW anyway...

[kawabanga]

I basically agree with my neighbor Varnak, even if I tried to change oil (Bardhal C60 5W30), without noticing any improvements, but my GTI is 1 liter per 10.000Km and now even better with the new breather...

In the hundreds of cases I read in our Italian forum and in other forum around the world, I can say that the oil consumption is not constant on this engine: the way it's driven, outside temps, short trips, high revs, many variables cause different consumption on the same engine in different periods... Sometimes oil consumption disappear for ever after a certain milleage.
This could be, IMHO, the fake behaviour that can let someone think that the type of oil is the real reason...

A different oil, specially changing viscosity, could lead to little differences not noticeable measuring the dipstick: who burns 1 liter per 1.000Km should look for the reason somewhere else...

I agree also on oil changing: I personally changed mine at 12.500Km just for the coming of cold winter temps, but as I shown with my pics, the oil was still clear and for sure the oil filter is able to do its job very well...
The CPU tell me that the oil would be fine till about 30.000Kms, I can beleive it's true...

[gavs]

Polo GTI High Oil Usage - Discussion Thread

Varnak;

First off, I never found Kawabanga's post offensive at all, I actually value his opinion and contributions to the community coming from another side of the world perspective. I also (again) do not disagree with what you are saying whatsoever yet you cannot seem to understand this.

Because I work in an engineering office that deals with such matters as oil and hydraulic fluid and how they operate, perform and degrade etc I clearly have no idea what I am talking about so I will not comment further.

And as you will find after your last barrage of insults against another forum member, nor will you for some time. For the record, I couldn't give a crap what you said about me.

[kawabanga]

First off, I never found Kawabanga's post offensive at all,

Thanks for clarifications, reading that message I also thought you were referring to me...