Golf mk7: Auto Start/Stop disable switch - who wants to help?

[DV52]

Hey Dv52, ive had a request from a few people in the US to see if we can do the same with the ESC button,

Basically pressing it for like 4 seconds after start.

Ive had a look, the button is low when in neutral state, and HIGH when pressed.
the weird thing is, when testing continuity with a multimeter, this also acts as pressing the button,

Its between VCC and PURPLE, or the wire right next to VCC

I Was wondering if you had the wiring diagram or knew where to get it to see if this is possible at all.

Cheers.

wookie: Interesting problem - from the wiring diagram, the ESC/ESP Switch mercifully looks to be the same as the SS switch in that it is a single-throw, single pole switch. But the circuit wiring for ESC/ESP Switch is the electrical reverse of the SS Switch: as you say - it connects +12 Volts to pin #39 on the ABS module (this shouldn't be a problem).

My only concern is whether the ESC switch is the latching type: does the disable/enable function work on the leading/trailing edge of the +12 Volt source like the SS Switch, or does it need the +12 Volt to remain applied?

When the ESC switch is pressed and then released, does the switch return to the normal position, or does it latch in the pressed state (and then return when pressed again)?

Assuming the answer to my question above is NO - here's how to modify my switch to operate as an Auto ESC Kill Switch:



Don

PS: My guess when you used the multi-meter to test continuity is that the ABS module saw the internal battery in the multi-meter as a surrogate for the +12 Volt supply from SC34 in my picture. As you probably already know, continuity testing involves measuring the electrical current from a known battery voltage internal to the multi-meter

[wookie_666]

I knew you would be able to help.

One question, where do you find these electrical diagrams. i was looking everywhere online yesterday and couldn't find the exact info.

From what i can gather, it should be non latching,

as pressing and letting go turns off stability control and the switch voltage goes low again
Pressing and holding for a longer period, i.e, 3-5 seconds, this turns off traction control.

So i would pretty much connect the wire between +ve and the button wire, and have the arduino code control the time delay, then the time on, then switch off and sleep.

I really didn't want to connect a wire from +ve to switch wire, incase i blew something up. In your optinion, would connecting the switch to +ve 12v be fine to bypass the switch and test?

wookie: Interesting problem - from the wiring diagram, the ESC/ESP Switch mercifully looks to be the same as the SS switch in that it is a single-throw, single pole switch. But the circuit wiring for ESC/ESP Switch is the electrical reverse of the SS Switch: as you say - it connects +12 Volts to pin #39 on the ABS module (this shouldn't be a problem).

My only concern is whether the ESC switch is the latching type: does the disable/enable function work on the leading/trailing edge of the +12 Volt source like the SS Switch, or does it need the +12 Volt to remain applied?

When the ESC switch is pressed and then released, does the switch return to the normal position, or does it latch in the pressed state (and then return when pressed again)?

Assuming the answer to my question above is NO - here's how to modify my switch to operate as an Auto ESC Kill Switch:



Don

PS: My guess when you used the multi-meter to test continuity is that the ABS module saw the internal battery in the multi-meter as a surrogate for the +12 Volt supply from SC34 in my picture. As you probably already know, continuity testing involves measuring the electrical current from a known battery voltage internal to the multi-meter

[wookie_666]

DV52, you may be able to explain this a little better for me. The minus schematic on that italian page posted in the last page, just dont make sense to me. They connect the 3.3v from the regulator through the relay and diode to the SS wire and in my bench testing, that sends approx 2.7v to the SS wire when the wire is not pressed. That SS wire is high at 2v when not pressed. Would this cause issues
Would it not be better to have the OUTPUT from the attiny and the input to the attiny using photocouplers? This way the two systems are not linked in anyway?
Just tryign to understand the circuit before i go ahead and try to replicate it.

[wookie_666]

I have put together a little circuit using tinkercad circuits.
Here is the link if you wanted to have a look.
Basically. You have a button on the left, and the ATTiny on the right (represented by the UNO)
When the button is not pressed, it is high at 2v
when pressed it closes to ground.

this image shows the voltage at the button when it is being manually pressed. Is the 5MV too high to be classified as LOW or is it LOW enough.


This image is when nothing is pressed, and the ATTiny is not outputting anything.
You can see the voltage at the button is 2v


This is when the ATTiny is outputting HIGH to simulate pressing the button. The voltage at the button is pulled quite LOW but it isn't all the way, again, i assume this is LOW enough.


My question is, if i wanted to incorporate the traction button also, which needs 12v, i wouldn't be able to use this circuit, i would have to modify it to have another transistor or something.

Would the ATTiny work with 2 x photocouplers, one connecting the SS to GND and one connecting the Traction to 12V?
I would then have 2 inputs, reading each button state at startup? This would then save to EEPROM the setting wanted for the module whether to run or not for that button.
Using 4 GPIO pins on the ATTINY is doable i think.

[DV52]

^^^ wookie: we have had the "2 Volt" discussion before (a few pages back) - one of the reasons why my original design uses a miniature electro-mechanical relay is to provide complete electrical isolation with the internal control module circuits. The problem is that we don't know the electrical sourcing and sinking capabilities of pin #39 on the ABS module- you could experiment, but it might be an expensive exercise if you fry an internal component.

Opto couplers can be used for isolation as discussed HERE, but I suspect that modification will be needed because of the different wiring arrangement in the ESP button.

As for your question about sourcing the +12 Volt supply for your device -if you don't want to splice into the SC34 wire on the ESP switch, then take the supply from anywhere - just make sure that it's a T15 supply because my design needs a 12V switch-on pulse to start the SS kill process. But really, if you wire the Vcc supply to the SC34 end of the the relay contacts, there are no additional wires needed!

Don

[wookie_666]

From a few of the other posts, it seems as though the 2v from the button is sufficient to switch an opto coupler fine.
I guess my question in the latest post is, using the schematic from the italian website, posted a few pages back, with transistors, is that the button never really is true ground, It always has a small voltage potential of 5mv or 67mv. Is that LOW enough for the cars computer to recognise it as being pressed.

I was initially wondering would it be worthwhile using the transistors or would it be a better idea to use the optocouplers and isolate both circuits from each other but now im leaning towards the opto couplers as they are 'safe', my electrical knowledge is limited in this regard.

[wookie_666]

My other question was actually what is the safest way to test this, as i didn't have the wiring diagram. But after more probing with multimeters i was able to conclude that it was infact a regular switch, pulled to ground when not pressed and pulled high to 12v when pressed. I was then comfortable to probe it with a 12v wire to test the switch action and it worked fine.

Are you able to share your source for the wiring schematics at all? Wondering where i would be able to find them.

[DV52]

wookie: I'm repeating myself from our previous discussion on post #141.

Here's the spec for the electrical characteristics of the LED in the opto-coupler from an earlier design (it's from the 4N28 datasheet):


The vertical scale in the picture is the voltage across the LED in the opto-coupler. As you can see, 2 Volts is sufficient, but this is not the voltage at the button because you will need to include some form of current-limiting ballast into the LED circuit (LEDs are current devices, they are NOT voltage devices). Likely you will use a series resistor for this purpose -so you will lose some of the 2 Volts from the button across the resistor. The amount of voltage loss across the resistor is dependent on the operating current that you choose for the LED

I'm a bit lost about your question regarding the collector-emitter turn-on voltage if a transistor is used. From my wiring diagram it is clear that the ESP button applies a 12V pulse to pin #39 on the ABS module (@address hex03). When the button is open, I suspect the pin voltage floats (I assume that the pin is connected to an open-collector circuit inside the module - this is a complete guess). So- your application is very different to my original design since the ESP button doesn't earth the ABS pin. But if you want to persist with this application, simply look for a transistor with a low saturation voltage, or try using a Field-Effect-Transistor

As for your repeated questions regarding access to wiring schemes, I'm not aware of any such schemes that will give you the internal circuits for the control modules - which is what you will want to understand the characteristics of pin #39. These circuit wiring diagrams are propriety information that are owned by VW and it's entirely unlikely that any part of these details will be available in the public domain. That's why I took a very conservative design approach in my device - because I had no understanding of the internal module circuits.

Don

[wookie_666]

Hey Don,
Sorry to sound like a bother. But I think we are talking about two different things.
I was saying that the BJT transistor circuits provided on the italian website doesn't give truly 0v when triggering the button, but actually 5mv-65mv. I would assume this is LOW enough for the cars control unit to think the button has been pressed. Im not asking anything about the 2v when NOT Pressed anymore.

I was also asking where YOU get your circuit diagrams. especially the ones showing the internal workings of the SS button and the internal workings of the Traction control button. I understand they are owned by VW, but you are getting them from somewhere to show them in your circuit diagrams are you not?
You have diagrams showing the SS switch is just pulled to ground and the TCS switch is pulled HIGH to 12V when activated, or did you just make these images yourself.

I thank you for your help. although at this stage, i believe you think i'm being a nuisance, when that is not my intention.

[wookie_666]

Just to be clear, im specifically wondering where your source is for these wiring diagrams. I understand everything outside the RED box is probably designed by yourself. is everything in the red box designed by yourself also, or is that a screenshot from a VW wiring schematic.

[wagenwagon]

Really keen to do this in my 103tsi wagon. It’s one of the few things I dislike about the car.

I’m having trouble finding parts on eBay.

Ive used keywords: mono, monostable, mono timer etc

Can anyone steer me in the right direction?

Maybe I’m better off going to a Jaycar or somewhere similiar?

Thanks in advance

[Maximilium]

Quick Question:

Does anybody try this time relay for the kill switch?



Time Delay Relay, DROK 5V 12V 24V Delay Controller Board Delay-off Cycle Timer 0.01s-9999mins Trigger Delay Switching Relay Module with LCD Display Support Micro USB 5V Power Supply - - Amazon.com


Time Delay Relay, Relay Switch DC6V~30V LCD Multifunction Digital Motor Controller Delay power cut/break/Trigger delay/Cycle timing circuit Relay Module

[Maximilium]

I got it done today on my 2019 VW Tiguan


Disclaimer: Any person, who decides to perform this modification, does so at their own risk.
I shall not be liable for any kind of damage, whether direct or indirect, resulting from use of
the information provided in this post.... Just don't do it!



There are many threads about how to disable the engine auto stop / start feature on new vehicles, this mod
is just one more way to do it, but more vehicle specific. I will leave at the end of this post links to other treads
that I found about this topic.





Parts:

1. DROK 12 Volt Timer Relay: Amazon Link
2. DROK 12 Volt Timer Relay: Instruction Manual
3. Adecco Cloth Tape: Amazon Link
4. Electric tape + soldering kit
5. 24 Gauge Wires: Amazon Link

To supply power to the Timer Relay I splice the cables going to the Cigarette Lighter ( Same connection I used for my radar detector)
the brown wire is the negative, Green with Red is the positive. Always check voltage with Multiplier.







DROK 12 Volt Timer Relay Connection Diagram








More information about how to dissemble center console and access this wires on other vehicles can be found HERE.


There are many different way to connect this wires, I like to strip about 2 mm of the insulation on the wire with a knife,
solder the wires and cover with electrical tape. Then I wrap all the wiring with Cloth Tape.


I secured the Timer Relay module with Velcro.







Programming the Time Delay Module:

1. Product Function: P-2
2. T-1 ( Timer 1 = time module will wait to turn the relay on) at 30 sec.
3. T-2 ( Timer 2 = time relay will remain active) at 0.1 sec.
4. Mode C: Timer starts when module is power on, after 30 sec. relay activates for 0.1 sec.

Other Links:


SSAM Module Installation Instructions
SSAM Module Page link
Automatic Start Stop kill switch - The answer!! (Link 1)
Disable Start/Stop on Golf mkVII - VCDS tweak

[Wizardtm]

I've been reading this thread very carefully and made the assumption that this should work for a Passat MY2015 also.
So I started ordering parts and build the Auto S/S Kill switch: Closed Loop Design.

[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/vHCKmL6"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/80nS2PL/workbench.jpg" alt="workbench" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

I was very happy with the result and started testing it on my bench. Everything worked okay, so next step was to put in the car. There thing went bad..... the closed loop wasn't working. So I measured the voltage on the black/grey wire. It was only 1,1Volts.

I think I've read in this thread that a Golf Mk7 has a voltage of 2Volts. This mean I need to redesign the circuit to make it work

[wildstar87]

I've been following this thread for a while. This timer circuit seemed perfect, but it switches the power line, not ground. However the guy who sells the timers, also makes a version that switches ground (sink). I used this version, and it couldn't have gone better.

I used these connectors to make a plug-in harness:
2/4/10sets/lot 10 Pin/Way Male Feamle Lift Switch Seat Adjustment Plug Connector For Volkswagen AUDI 6R0 972 930 1K0 971 992-in Cables, Adapters & Sockets from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

It's a simple design, all the wires are duplicated as a passthrough, but I also linked in the timer to the power, ground, and switch signal lines.

I even was able to program it outside the car with a test power supply I have. I plugged it in, and it worked like a champ first time out. It only works on initial startup, but that's exactly what I wanted, so I can still enable it on the fly if I want to. That was all I needed, no other component. It's so nice having this ability now!

As an alternative to the Auto S/S kill switch that is described on post #1 of this thread, the following design uses a different "programmable" module that is readily available from the net. The "Multi-Functional Delay Timer" (MFDT) can be programmed to undertake 17 x different timing functions, but as used in this design, the inbuilt function #7 performs the exact timing characteristics that are described in post #1 of this thread.

The MFTD can be purchased from EBay and Amazon (see link below), or it can be obtained directly from the distributor via the last link below:

EBAY
Amazon
MFDT_Direct

Multi-functional Delay Timer
The MFDT has 6 x wires as shown in the diagram below:

As indicated, the device has the same four wires as per the original Mono (i.e. Vcc, Earth, Vout and Trigger) plus it has two additional wires that are used for programming the T1 and T2 timing periods.

The circuit diagram for the MFTD unit is shown in the diagram below:

As indicated, the connections are the same as those for the Mono except that the Trigger wire is not used and the two programming wires are not connected (these wires will be used later). Also, the "freewheeling" diode across the relay coil is not required because a diode has already been included for this purpose inside the MFDT.

Construction

1. Solder the relay (all legs) and the diode onto a small piece of "Vero" board so that the components are mounted on the track side (the relay should be oriented so that "notch" in on the LHS of the board as shown in the Back-view picture below). Before mounting the relay, remember to remove a section of the track where the relay package is to be placed so that the pins on opposite sides of the relay don't short each-other.
2. Place a piece of double sided tape to one of the faces on the MFDT and secure the vero board to the other side of the tape
3. Solder the Red, Black and Yellow wires on the MFDT to the components on the vero board as per the circuit diagram
4. Solder three wires to the vero board for the connections to be made to the centre console switch as per the circuit diagram.
5. The three wires coloured White, Green and Blue should not be connected

The pictures below indicate the finished Auto S/S kill switch: Alternate design

Programming Circuit
Using a test bench power supply, or a 12 Volt batttery construct the ciruit diagram below to program the Auto S/S kill switch
Connect a button style switch to each of the white and green wires as shown and connect a LED and series resistor to "see" the pulse signal.

Programming Procedure:

1. With the power switch off, hold down the two buttons, then turn-on the power switch and release the buttons. The LED will illuminate for 3 seconds to indicate that the device has entered the programming mode. Keep the power switch turned-on for steps 2, 3 and 4 of these procedures
2. Set T1 period: Hold down the button that is connected to the white wire for about 5 seconds. Release the white wire button and the LED will extinguish
3. Set T2 period: Hold down the button that is connected to the green wire for about 2 seconds. Release the green wire button and the LED will extinguish.
4. Set Mode: The last step is to set the MFDT to Delayed Interval (single cycle) mode - this provides the timing sequence shown in post #1 of this thread. The code for this mode is 7. To set the mode, momentarily press and release the two buttons together - the LED will flash to indicate that you have entered mode selection. Press the white wire button seven times to set mode 7
5. Turn-off the power switch - the MFDT is now programmed!

To test the correct timing periods, turn-on the power switch and observe the LED operation.
If T1, and/or T2 need to be re-adjusted, repeat the steps outlined above. (note: there is no need to complete step 4 again - once the mode is set initially, it will remain at the set number).

That's it - Remove the device from the programming circuit, remove the two buttons and secure the unused wires neatly so that they don't short against any other components. Then slip the completed Auto S/S kill switch into a piece of heat shrink tubing and install in the car.

Installation:
Mattaus will describe the installation of the "test device" in his mk7 which has additional buttons in the centre console, but in my MY13 model, there is only one button on either side of the gear selector lever. This means that the T15 power supply wire (Black/Yellow) is not in the wiring loom for the 10 PIN connector to the switch module.

For those in this situation, the additional T15 wire needs to be provided and I found that the most convenient method of doing this was to install a "piggy-back" fuse on fuse position #40 in the "C" fuse box (which is located behind the glove box for those cars that have the steering wheel in the correct side).

Given that I needed to work in the "C" fuse-box area anyway, and because access to the centre console is such a PITA, and because I'm still not certain that the time periods for T1 and T2 are correct (it's therefore likely that I will need to take-out and re-install the device), I decided to mount the Auto S/S Kill switch in the "C" fuse box as well (instead of the cavity in the centre console). To do this, I spliced the two wires to PIN #1 and PIN #4 on the 10 PIN connector and extended these into the "C" fuse box area.

A picture of the complete installation is shown below (note: to minimise the possibility of the device rattling, I wrapped the the completed unit in "bubble-wrap"):

So far the device is working perfectly albeit, I 'm tempted to reduce T1 to about 3 seconds. I'll wait for feedback from Mattaus and AJW before making this change

Cheers
Don