Why you need to use 504/507 oils in FSI/TSI/TDI engines!

[Audi Junkie]

The problem in the USA with 504 is the low additive levels don't work well with the alcohol and sulphur in our gas. Dealers use 502 5w-40 and 10k intervals.

I don't trust any oil past 10k, the downside is too great.

Direct Injection can ruin most any oil....

[joel0407]

It that graph from Bob the oil guy forum? I have near all my oil tests. I'd like to add mine.

Happy Days

[blaast]

Supercheap have Nulon Full Synthetic European VW 504/507 10 litre for $61, normally $122, until 15th October 2017.

Nulon Full Synthetic EUROPEAN Engine Oil - Supercheap Auto

[rave75]

I topped up 1L of 502/505 between service by mistake. I thought there is only one type of castrol edge, turns out there is LL version (504/507). Can anyone confirm if 502/505 is okay?

[brad]

I topped up 1L of 502/505 between service by mistake. I thought there is only one type of castrol edge, turns out there is LL version (504/507). Can anyone confirm if 502/505 is okay?

It's fine. That's the minimum spec oil for fixed service intervals. We don't actually do LL/variable in Aus.

[ilium007]

Following on from a post I placed in the Polo 9N forum.

I have spent a day ready almost every thread on the net regarding oil in the PD TDI engines. I have a 2006 Polo 1.9TDI AXR engine (which I believe is a PD engine). These had a history of chewing out camshaft lobes. The manual specifies 5W40 505.01 spec oil. I have found Penrite Enviro+ 5W40 available locally. I have found a few people in the VW Golf forums using this oil.

In the USA a lot of people send oil samples away to Blackstones for analysis and guys running Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5W40 were getting better wear results than guys running any of the 505.01 oils available over there.

Information re. Pumpe Duse engines and oil here:

Engine oil list for TDI diesel | VW TDI forum, Audi, Porsche, and Chevy Cruze diesel forum

Just wondering what peoples 'go to' oil for non-DPF VW TDI PD engines here in Australia is?

[ilium007]

I've just gone on to Penrites vehicle selector and it is showing VW 506 01 oil for the AXR engine in the 2006 1.9TDI - Penrite Enviro+ C2 0W30.

I can't check my manual as its in Newcastle and I'm currently in Birdsville!

[Transporter]

If you have to use 506.01 oil then I’d strictly adhere to that recommendation. It’s cheaper to buy 506.01 approved oil than repair the engine.
LiquiMoly has 506.01 approved oil and there’s also Ravenol 506.01 available from imparts.
Penrite has no approved 506.01 oil, so I’d void it.

[gregozedobe]

In the past there has been lots of discussion on the BrickYard (a UK VW forum) in the T5 Transporter sub-forum about 506.01 vs 504/507.

IIRC the general consensus was that the early PD 5cyl 2.5L engines had camshafts and followers made of a chocolate/steel alloy which was very prone to premature wear so VW specified 506.01 which had excellent anti-wear properties.

Then the new 504/507 oil came along (according to some testing it had slightly better anti-wear properties than 506.01), but VW chose not to have 504/507 tested and certified for use in the no-longer-made old PD engines as the certification process cost money, and they were no longer making those wear-prone engines.

TL,DR 504.507 was considered to be better than 506.01 in older PD TDI VW engines

[Transporter]

These wear prone engine last well over 1,000,000km when you use the oil that should be used in them.

I've seen the posts in TDI.com forum (before 2010) where people had their oil samples tested while using different than factory approve oil and most of them lost the engine before 100,000km despite the normal oil tests.

I also don't believe that the 507.00 oils are better than 506.01
The 507.00 oils are good for the environment at the expense of the engine wear, just like most, if not all modern engine oils.

[bradsm87]

My 2017 GTI's owner's manual says not to use 504 00 / 507 00 oil in markets where the fuel does not meet EN 228 (10ppm Sulphur) and to use 502 00 instead. Australian fuel does not meet EN 228. For the same reason, BMW recommend LL01 rather than LL04 here in Australia.

Why are so many people running 504 / 507 oil in petrol engines when it requires EN228 low sulphur fuel and we don't have it?

[brad]

My 2017 GTI's owner's manual says not to use 504 00 / 507 00 oil in markets where the fuel does not meet EN 228 (10ppm Sulphur) and to use 502 00 instead. Australian fuel does not meet EN 228. For the same reason, BMW recommend LL01 rather than LL04 here in Australia.

Why are so many people running 504 / 507 oil in petrol engines when it requires EN228 low sulphur fuel and we don't have it?

I'd assume because 504/507 in overseas markets is used for variable service regime which is up to 30k/24m.

In AU we use it on fixed interval 15k/12m

This thread is now 10 years old. Back then 504/507 was 3x the price of 502 and a lot of people were trying to save money by using 502

[bradsm87]

I'd assume because 504/507 in overseas markets is used for variable service regime which is up to 30k/24m.

In AU we use it on fixed interval 15k/12m

This thread is now 10 years old. Back then 504/507 was 3x the price of 502 and a lot of people were trying to save money by using 502

No it's to do with low SAPS oil having a lower TBN and when used with high sulphur fuel, it is more prone to going acidic sooner. It's not about saving money. The owner's manual specifies 504 for fixed service intervals where EN 228 fuel is available or otherwise 502 where EN 228 fuel is not available so it's not a fixed vs variable interval thing. It's to do with the sulphur level in the fuel sold here. This is an MY18 GTI owner's manual. I've seen another transcript of a Polo manual saying the same thing. It's the same reason BMW specify LL-01 oil here rather than LL-04 or MB specify 229.5 rather than 229.51 or 229.52. Generally you don't use low SAPS oil in countries that don't have the 10ppm sulphur limit set by the EN 228 fuel standard.

[brad]

Fair enough but you are probably overthinking it.
504/507 is now a 13yo (older??) spec and in that time you can complain about many VW engineering deficiencies but oil quality or degradation has never been one of them.

[bradsm87]

Fair enough but you are probably overthinking it.
504/507 is now a 13yo (older??) spec and in that time you can complain about many VW engineering deficiencies but oil quality or degradation has never been one of them.

I'm not questioning VW's oil specs. They have a spec for low sulphur fuel countries (504/507) and a spec for high sulphur fuel countries (502). VW say in their manual don't use this stuff in Australia. I'm questioning why so many people do anyway.