Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Corey_R]

When I was reading the "forget lap times and think driver involvement" part, I started typing up stuff about the interior quality of the Renaults (though they are improving ) But then I saw you'd agreed with me on the A1/Polo GTI comments. So I'll let you off easily

Light, balanced, zippy, AND a nice interior. That's what I want next

[sabloke]

I'm not the one to talk to about interior niceties, not a selling point for me at all. Can't stand Honda Civic Star trek type though... I find Clio's interior neat and functional and after 20,000km and well over a year is rattle free. The Recaro seats are a dream, the admission/exhaust noise intoxicating. What else is there? If VW or Audi manage to make the GTI/A1 drive and feel like the French bugger, I'm in. A nice interior, whatever that means, would only be a nice bonus

[Corey_R]

Well, as I said. Polo GTI is only $28k + onroads. Whilst it's DSG only, you can add the suspension/sway bar and brake package yourself, even using the "premium name brands" if you want and it'll still be cheaper than the Renault Sports models. You can also add the go faster bits if you'd like and still be cheaper than the Trophee.

Whilst I know that you could do upgrades to the Renaults (although, the better models already have the name brand brakes and stuff, so I would presume the gains are more limited), the point is, you can have the nice interior, and "better than Renault track times" for less/similar money.

[triode12]

Does the new Polo GTI have independant rear suspension or a torsion bar?

[Corey_R]

Front Axle: Independent suspension, MacPherson struts and coil springs. Sports suspension lowered approximately 15mm (GTI).
Rear Axle: Torsion beam axle, trailing arms, coil springs. Sports suspension lowered approximately 15mm (GTI).

[triode12]

Front Axle: Independent suspension, MacPherson struts and coil springs. Sports suspension lowered approximately 15mm (GTI).
Rear Axle: Torsion beam axle, trailing arms, coil springs. Sports suspension lowered approximately 15mm (GTI).

Thanks - so the same as the previous POG then.

[WhiteJames]

Feel-Good Factor

Apparently the Polo GTI (DSG) bested the Renault Megane RS250 and Golf GTI (both manual) in one of the acceleration times in Motor Mag BFYB 2011. The Polo GTI (DSG) is probably knocking on the door of the manual Golf R in the 0-100kph test. Pity the Polo GTI doesn’t come with adaptive dampers as an option to further aid handling and comfort. As for the boot in the Renault Megane RS250, space is a little off what you’d find in the std Golf and does involve a bit of contortion to get my std suitcase into the rear end. I’m interested to see if the resale value of the Renault Sport RS250 does improve given time and a few more sports hatch awards which are likely to follow in the next year or two. Can’t say I’m convinced that retained values will improve remarkably for the Renault, but keeping an open mind in this regard as it’s a niche vehicle. Renault has offered a 5 year warranty on everything bar the Renault Sport range in an attempt to boost their reliability image. They could do with more dealerships and service locations.

The hard plastic in the dash, illegible speedometer and steel bar for under seat adjustment do detract from the quality of the Renault Sport RS250, otherwise the interior standard is reasonable good; much better than a Subaru WRX or Mitsubishi Lancer imo. The non-Recaro seats in the lower level non-trophee Renault Sport RS250 are about par with the cloth in the Golf R in terms of quality of seat and material imo – no better or worse. The Megane having Golf R fuel consumption is not entirely acceptable for a lighter 1380kg hatch, but may be better in real life driving conditions due to its lighter weight. My Mark 6 Golf GTI consistently averages 6.8l/100km north and 6.7l/100km south from Sydney to Gold Coast door to door on the Pacific Hwy.

When considering a vehicle like the Renault Megane RS250, you have to consider how the vehicle makes you feel in terms of driver involvement. A proper mechanic limited slip differential (LSD) offering loads of grip and feel, Revo-Knuckle front driveline & steering separators to reduce torque steer and provide a wider wheel track that aids handling, aluminium lower suspension arms to reduce unsprung weight, stiffer sub-frame adding a feel of solidity, lovely gear change feel & length and well judged suspension tune of the std suspension in terms of comfort/sports balance provides a lot of engagement and feel-good factor for the driver, despite how fast the vehicle is capable of being driven.

Cheers.
WJ

[sabloke]

Well, as I said. Polo GTI is only $28k + onroads. Whilst it's DSG only, you can add the suspension/sway bar and brake package yourself, even using the "premium name brands" if you want and it'll still be cheaper than the Renault Sports models. You can also add the go faster bits if you'd like and still be cheaper than the Trophee.

So, am I to believe that by the time you add Brembo four piston caliper brakes, Recaro seats, suspension improvements and a remap, the Polo GTI is still cheaper than say RS200 Trophee AND drives as well if not better around the track? Wonder why isn't VW doing it to start with if it is so easy and cost effective? Anyway, all those mods wouldn't change the soundtrack though, the GTI would still sound like a Stihl chainsaw
You end up with a fast Polo that will cost about as much as the RS200 Trophee, let's face it. Good luck insuring it and good luck indeed with your waranty.

[triode12]

So, am I to believe that by the time you add Brembo four piston caliper brakes, Recaro seats, suspension improvements and a remap, the Polo GTI is still cheaper than say RS200 Trophee AND drives as well if not better around the track? Wonder why isn't VW doing it to start with if it is so easy and cost effective? Anyway, all those mods wouldn't change the soundtrack though, the GTI would still sound like a Stihl chainsaw
You end up with a fast Polo that will cost about as much as the RS200 Trophee, let's face it. Good luck insuring it and good luck indeed with your waranty.

VW did in the Polo GTI Cup LE but it was not imported here. The only reason Renault is bringing in the Clio Cup Trophee is because the run of the mill ones don't sell, so they have targetted the enthusiast (niche) market instead - even then they are still having trouble moving them in great numbers. The VW polo sells in greater numbers in all forms - so there is less incentive for VW to produce a halo model which might eat into Golf GTI sales.

[MkVIGTI]

The interior of the Polo GTI is still not a match to that of the Golf GTI though

[sabloke]

I totally agree triode12. That Polo GTI cup LE sound interesting...
See, the main difference between Polo GTI and Clio RS200 is that the French one is built on a dedicated chassis, powered by a specific RS engine and built in one factory only that is focused exclusively on performance cars. Same applies to RS250, too. In comparison. the GTIs and Rs are not much more than vanilla models with some go fast bits and cosmetic addons. I'm not looking down to GTIs and Rs saying that; in fact that is proof of how good the standard Golf/Polo is and how bad the standard Clio is that Renault doesn't even bother trying selling it here.

[Corey_R]

The other difference could be said, that Renault Sports need to use dedicated chassis and specific engines, because the base Renault stuff is so crap. Even you cannot denying this, as you're forever trying to make the differentiation between "Renault" and "Renault Sport"

I mean lets face it, the Golf chassis is used in cars all the way up to $155,000+, and the Golf R motor used in cars all the way up to $110,000+.

It has been said before. If you put Ford Mondeo door handles in an Aston Martin, that's a bad thing. But if you put the Aston Martin door handles in the Ford Mondeo, that's a good thing (heh, no guesses to who that came from). But that's what Volkswagen/Audi group do (not quite to that extreme though). They engineer something so that it can be used at a "upper model", and then produce it in such volume they can still survive by putting it in "low end model".


There are positives and negatives to both approaches.

[sabloke]

Corey, that's exactly what I said, the Renault stuff is crap and I'd never ever buy one. Renault Sport though is another story and even you can admit that, despite forever trying to ignore the differences.
I love Renault's and Nissan's attitude, not allowing the bean counters to dictate quite 100%. If it was so, cars like mine or GT-R probably wouldn't exist at all. I only hope that with VW just about to overtake Toyota as the largest car manufacturer there's still some passion in making exciting cars for us ordinary folk. The way the new Passat and Jetta look worries me I have to say...

[triode12]

I feel that VW purposely underrated the previous Polo GTI so that it wouldn't eat into the sales of it's bigger brother. It was a very entertaining car to drive more than the MkV Golf GTI (and that is saying a lot). I suspect with a set of sways, coilovers and a tune, it would give the Golf GTI a run for it's money performance wise.

[Corey_R]

Yep, I've never denied the Renault Sport cars have good handling.

I even admit to liking the exterior look of the Clio 200 Gordino, and the Megane Trophee Cup 250 WhateverTheNameIsIt'sTooLongEdition in "Yellow" (eek! Yellow!).

But I don't like their engines, and whilst I no longer find their interiors offensively bad, they're just unremarkable. Turbo-charged engines in the next model gives hope. There is also hope with the fact that their interiors have been increasing in quality. We'll see what happens in the future. But for now... just not what I'd pick for the roads.

The interior of the Polo GTI is still not a match to that of the Golf GTI though

I agree, but then that should be obvious. Polo > Golf > Passat etc
But the Polo is nicer than anything else for its money, and even nicer than some more expensive cars, such as the Renault Sports. Hence why I'll look on with great interest about the Audi S1, and even how much of APR's Polo GTI kit can be fitted to the Audi A1 Sport. I know that some people are not a fan of the look of the A1, but there is now 4 of them out in the car park at my work and 3 of them look awesome imo

I feel that VW purposely underrated the previous Polo GTI so that it wouldn't eat into the sales of it's bigger brother. It was a very entertaining car to drive more than the MkV Golf GTI (and that is saying a lot). I suspect with a set of sways, coilovers and a tune, it would give the Golf GTI a run for it's money performance wise.

Yeah I'd agree. That silly little Polo of mine was awesome. I only ever did the Stage 1 as it was only meant to be a temporary car for me. But after owning that, I'm still struggling to come to grips with how much of a PORKER the Golf R is