What to buy? GTI or R20

[Timbo]

Keep up, Liam

They have their heart set on an R20...and that's fine by me. Actually, anything that pushes S3 pricing up is fine by me, now!

[Corey_R]

Also.. One thing that people seem to be forgetting is that irrespective if the base price of the R and the S3 are close.. the cost of the options on the Audi and alot more!! One example is the satnav: VW=$2500 Audi=$5500!

It's not quite that simple. Since the S3 is always over the LCT threshold, all the options are quoted including LCT. As the Golf starts at $25,990, most of the models are under the LCT, including the 3dr manual R. However, by the time it's on-the-road all Golf R's will be subject to at least a few $ LCT.

What this means is the Sat Nav for the Golf R will cost $3325 (plus stamp duty), compared to the $5500 (plus stamp duty) of the Audi. It's still a big difference, but not as bad as $2500 vs $5500 looks.

So remember, all Golf R options will cost 33% more than on the GTI in the 'on-the-roads' price of the car

I'm not sure how that would work. Audi and VW are separate companies and organisations in Australia. There's not a lot of love between them. More importantly, their dealer networks are very different and I suspect Audi dealers would be very pissed off by any action Audi or VW took to reduce their competitiveness. It'd probably give rise to a complaint to the ACCC. If it was possible (and I say not) we would have already seen it in play, as the low spec A3s can be had at Golf prices.

Yeah, VWA and Audi Australia are separate companies, but they still both report to VAG in Germany. There is no way an A3 would be priced the same as the equivalent Golf due to Audi being the premium brand. As soon as their prices match VW, then what's the point of Audi?
As others have noted, the Golf is probably a higher quality car than the A3 right now, but Audi still won't reduce the pricing to below the Golf because they need to maintain that premium image. I'm sure in Australia that the Golf R vs S3 will be the same. R32's are still cheaper than S3's today, I still haven't seen anyone here post any valid reason why that would change with the Golf R.

[dave_r]

I looked at both the Audis 2.0T and the VW GTI.. and at this point in time i dont think Audi has the edge with the interior.. Usually yes.. but not at this point in time..

Its overdue for a makeover if you ask me! I was a little disappointed..

I had the same opinion when doing a back to back test drive of a sportback S3 to a 5dr GTI.

Bi-Xenons, Leather & metallic paint will be standard, same as the R32. Goodies as such as alarm etc also likely to be standard.

This is what I'm banking on!

I have seen a dealer notification that showed deliveries to start end May 2010. These will be pre-ordered by VWA and if you want specific spec, likely be able to order end May with a 4 month wait ......

My info at the time of pre-order was about the same. All first shipment cars are spec'd by VWA, just have to hope that there is one in a spec you want otherwise you'll be waiting until 2011 most likely for a custom order 2nd/3rd batch.

The other comment about a 3rd qtr first shipment doesn't work for me, if that info proves to be likely, I'll be cancelling my order and going back to the drawing board.

[elisiX]

Dave the spec you have in your signature is almost exactly what i'd be looking to see on the first few shipments.. did they give you ANY idea on pricing?

ie; Did they just say to expect R32 pricing and go from there. Therefore your spec below being about the $63k mark?

[Sharkie]

My order for the R is for Silver 5dr with a manual gearbox. Placed the order Feb 2009 !!!!!

BUT ... I've decided to not make mine 1 of the 1st batch for a few reasons ...

1. I'm in no hurry
2. I want to test drive both DSG and manual (to see if I can live with the DSG as up till now, no DSG has convinced me otherwise)
3. Need to see the price and compare against other options. I'm happy to spend $70K but if so then a lot of other cars may do it for instead ....

[Corey_R]

2. I want to test drive both DSG and manual (to see if I can live with the DSG as up till now, no DSG has convinced me otherwise)

DSG on the R will just be the same as on the MKV R32 and MKV/6 GTI... what do you expect may change?

[Sharkie]

DSG on the R will just be the same as on the MKV R32 and MKV/6 GTI... what do you expect may change?

I'm hoping the power increase and especially the way its delivered in combination with the new Haldex system will remove the initial lag upon take-off.

I've test driven many DSGs and cannot live with that lag. In a manual I'm long gone by the time (yes its only about 0.5s) the DSG wakes up and fires off.

I like the way it changes through the gears once its moving so if the lag is gone a DSG I may get.

[elisiX]

Actually I noticed this when I was driving Jackal's TT-S Stage II on the weekend when I put the boot in.

Once it was off the gear changing was deadly smooth .. but the car did seem to take a deep breath (very small period but noticeable) on take off.

Still - the convenience of DSG rules #1 for me in daily Sydney driving.

[Corey_R]

The other thing is that VW were using the 6-speed wet-clutch DSG in the Scirocco 24 hour race cars, apparently without any mechnical modifications, and it operated fine.

This and other indications is what has lead companies like APR to start using the DSG in Stage III and Stage IV GTI upgrades, as well as the Audi S3's equiv (S-Tronic?) in the S3's Stage III upgrade.

All of these are around 300kw and 500NM, and even higher (for the Stage IV etc).

So that 6 speed DSG is turning out to be way more capable than they originally thought.

[Glennb]

Check out the Dyno results from a chipped Tiguan.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=30212&page=26

155kW at the wheels (we'll call it stage 1.5??) Waiting for someone to do some 0-100km/hr times to get an idea of how quick it is.

So, for a $60k budget, it could be GTI with options, R20, or chipped and lowered Tig!!

Yes i know there are lots of "value for money" arguments about resale etc, but for driving fun/enjoyment it could be a hard decision.

[Corey_R]

Hmm, I don't know about the Tiguan. Don't get me wrong, there's one in the family and I love it, but as a 'performance car' I'm not sure.

~1350kg = GTI DSG
~1475kg = R DSG
~1600kg = Tiguan 125TSI Manual

Between the 125KG added weight to the R or 250KG over the GTI, and it's additional height, I'm not sure it'd be comparable around the corners. Straight line, fine, but corners?

[Sharkie]

Hmm, I don't know about the Tiguan. Don't get me wrong, there's one in the family and I love it, but as a 'performance car' I'm not sure.

~1350kg = GTI DSG
~1475kg = R DSG
~1600kg = Tiguan 125TSI Manual

Between the 125KG added weight to the R or 250KG over the GTI, and it's additional height, I'm not sure it'd be comparable around the corners. Straight line, fine, but corners?

I'm keeping the Tiguan once the R arrives (its my wife's anyway)

Straight line its much quicker than a stock GTI, and a chipped one as well due to the traction advantages. I can barely get a chirp out of the tyres upon full bore takeoffs.

In in-gear accellaration the weight counts a bit aganst it and here a chipped GTI will have it.

Stock it has pretty good handling, but lowered with decent (grippy) tyres it has no body roll and drives like a stock GTI. With the advantage of AWD as well, I'm pretty confident mine will outhandle a stock GTI.

Its no race car, but as an allround decent family car I doubt there is anything in the VW stable that can match it for the price. At the recent VW Austral day, my brother came to the same conculsion .... why bother with a GTI if for the same money you get the same engine (2.0 turbo) with AWD and more interior space ....

[astro]

How low can you get the tig??

[team_v]

How low can you get the tig??

Apparently they can run super low's without any issues so far in the US.
They are working on a coilover prototype (using R32 suspension) in the US which drops pretty low.
This is the car with teh coilovers on standard oem 18's.


In reality it isn't that much taller than a golf anyway.

[Corey_R]

That's visibly lower than Sharkie's but the Tiguan is 22cm taller than a GTI, so I'm pretty sure you can't lower them the 8.6" required for the Tiguan to match the GTI's height

I don't know - I'm not convinced. 250KG is still a big amount of additional weight, and given the additional height, even if lowered - they'd have to be some awesome tyres and coil overs to match the GTI's corning abilities