What to buy? GTI or R20

[G-rig]

So pretty much, best value car was the GTI Pirelli

Good value but too much lag, depends if you care .

Stock GTI prob best value but a stage 1 Pirelli is a lot of power .

[Corey_R]

For those who are saying that you'll be able to upgrade a Golf GTI and it will be quicker than a Golf R, you're dreaming.

It's been said before, but this is not the MKV GTI vs R32 situation this time.

Firstly, the Golf R is ONLY 125KG heavier this time, not 200KG as with the R32.
The Golf R's acceleration is 0 to 100 in 5.5 seconds, not 6.1 of the R32.

So a stage 2 APR GTI (around 205kw / 430NM) which will cost you $5k in upgrades (ECU, Exhaust, Air Intake) still won't get you to 5.5 seconds, mainly due to traction.

A stage 3 APR GTI (around 275KW / 520NM) will cost you $10k for the stage 3 kit, and probably another $10k in exhaust, suspension, brake, wheel/tyre upgrades, making it more expensive than a Golf R, would still struggle to do the 0 to 100 in 5.5 for most drivers, again due to traction. Guy H, please correct me if I'm wrong there

Simple fact is, the Golf R (or Audi S3) is going to be the car to have if you're looking at THAT level of performance. They already have 200KW/350NM of torque. They already have better suspension / brake package. And with a simple stage I ECU update they'll have 240KW/435NM of torque for as low as $1695 and then do 0 to 100 around the 5.0 second mark.

I'm not a "Golf R fanboi", my previous car was a APR/Oettinger Stage II GTI, I'm just being realistic here. Golf GTI is a fantastic car, but the fact that the Golf R is also getting a turbo engine and has nowhere near the weight penalty the R32 had, it changes things

[G-rig]

Not disputing that the Golf R is better for drags if you're into that, but what about a rolling start? Agree it's not worthing having too much power in a FWD as you can't put it down.

The point is, is it worth the extra for street use?

[Mk6 GTI]

Upgrading/tuning is one thing I'm not really into. I like cars to be as stock as possible. Don't mind subtle upgrades like exhausts & wheels but not really into mucking around significantly with hardware or software.

I might take the S3 for a spin. That's a good idea and failing that I may just have to wait for the R20 to arrive before I can decide.

me either!

[Timbo]

We all say that...and then we try a flash...and then it's a slippery slope

I think you'll find the the current 8P S3 will give you a pretty good indication of what the R20 will be like. Flash an S3 & it eliminates most of the lag, as well as boosting mid range torque considerably. Makes it a very pleasant car to drive, in a whole range of conditions. AWD also makes a much bigger difference than you'd imagine, especially in the wet.

[Blitzen]

Upgrading/tuning is one thing I'm not really into. I like cars to be as stock as possible. Don't mind subtle upgrades like exhausts & wheels but not really into mucking around significantly with hardware or software.

I might take the S3 for a spin. That's a good idea and failing that I may just have to wait for the R20 to arrive before I can decide.

I'm of the thinking that an ECU upgrade is the most visually subtle upgrade you can do...The only noticeable thing to the car is the power...Certainly more subtle than wheels or an exhaust.

I would go an R20 over a GTI....Certainly the 199kw of the R20 would easily counter the extra driveline loss, and with a decent tune and exhaust, the thing would be a great car to have even more fun it...

[backdoc]

Not disputing that the Golf R is better for drags if you're into that, but what about a rolling start? Agree it's not worthing having too much power in a FWD as you can't put it down.

The point is, is it worth the extra for street use?

I'm now really wondering if selling my R32 was such a good move. What have I done. Better wait till the R20 arrives and then maybe I won't be sad

[G-rig]

I'm now really wondering if selling my R32 was such a good move. What have I done. Better wait till the R20 arrives and then maybe I won't be sad

They are both good in different ways, I'd love either .

[triode12]

I think you'll find there will be plenty of turbo kit upgrades for the GTI that will surpass the R20 available in the future that will make the R20 seem slow and overpriced.

I assume the R20 its awd? Guess this will be the big difference for anyone wanting a track monster.

Yes the R is awd.

[triode12]

All of these cars will be fun to drive on the track... whether they one is more fun to drive on a daily basis is the question.

IMO -

1. If you are not going to be taking the car to the track
2. Will be using it as a daily drive
3. Want to have smile on your face each time you drive it and not loose your license at the same time.

A car that is smaller, lighter, (with decent power to weight ratio) is the answer. It isn't about all out speed.Take a drive in a J-class go-kart (which travel at about 120km/hr) and you will know what I mean.

The Golfs are no longer small, light weight cars. You will have to drive them at license losing speeds to extract the thrill of driving from them. They are too composed for the speed limits of our city roads.

[G-rig]

To add to the above, it's good having something with a decent amount of useable torque for the streets (like the R32's and some diesels), i'm sure the S3/Golf R would be fun on the track where you can really wind it out, but by the time you wait for the full power you're easily going over the speed limit.

Having said that, your power to weight would be good i thought Triode, if you've retuned the Pirelli, just different power delivery.

The R32 is a bit heavy but gives you a good planted feel and i've got lightweight wheels to compensate but still keen to lose the spare for a repair kit. Looking at other cheap runarounds and there are a few good fun cars that aren't super powerful like the 206 GTI 180 and Clio 182 Cup & MX-5's but are all quite small. when i owned the DC2R Type R i found that to be an ideal weight and heaps of fun.

[triode12]

To add to the above, it's good having something with a decent amount of useable torque for the streets (like the R32's and some diesels), i'm sure the S3/Golf R would be fun on the track where you can really wind it out, but by the time you wait for the full power you're easily going over the speed limit.

Having said that, your power to weight would be good i thought Triode, if you've retuned the Pirelli, just different power delivery.

The R32 is a bit heavy but gives you a good planted feel and i've got lightweight wheels to compensate but still keen to lose the spare for a repair kit. Looking at other cheap runarounds and there are a few good fun cars that aren't super powerful like the 206 GTI 180 and Clio 182 Cup & MX-5's but are all quite small. when i owned the DC2R Type R i found that to be an ideal weight and heaps of fun.

Greg,

The problem is... that graphs of most of the tunes I've seen show that they don't really address the lag.

[backdoc]

A car that is smaller, lighter, (with decent power to weight ratio) is the answer. It isn't about all out speed.Take a drive in a J-class go-kart (which travel at about 120km/hr) and you will know what I mean.

I race karts in Clubman Light with S-motors and I can assure you J-class do not go 120km/hr, unless of course you've flashed the ECU
Ours run at a top of 110km/hr and on a 900m track we are 5-6sec a lap faster than the J-motors. Maybe sitting so close to the ground has distorted your speed perception!

The R32 is a bit heavy but gives you a good planted feel and i've got lightweight wheels to compensate but still keen to lose the spare for a repair kit. Looking at other cheap runarounds and there are a few good fun cars that aren't super powerful like the 206 GTI 180 and Clio 182 Cup & MX-5's but are all quite small. when i owned the DC2R Type R i found that to be an ideal weight and heaps of fun.

I had a Clio Sport before the R32. Was a really fun car Just a shame it decided to randomly start shedding bits and pieces.........can't say the build quality was overwhelmingly good.

I've started looking at second hand R32's again..................

[Corey_R]

I've started looking at second hand R32's again..................

I'd wait for the Golf R before making any decisions. It's lighter than the R32, has more power AND torque, and is faster in acceleration. You could assume since it's lighter and has a new haldex unit etc, that's also probably better around corners.

The negative points in the reviews I've seen so far have only said that it is more refined than MKV Golf's and so seems a bit 'boring'. But then, many reviews of the R32 said the same thing.

UNLIKE the R32, if you DO find the car a bit boring, a $1695 ECU update will give you substantially more power and torque and, as others have commented even here in relation to the S3 after ECU update, will make it a much more pleasurable drive, even just around town.

[G-rig]

If it was a bit too refined i'd get an exhaust as well which would probably fix that issue.