What to buy? GTI or R20

[G-rig]

That's visibly lower than Sharkie's but the Tiguan is 22cm taller than a GTI, so I'm pretty sure you can't lower them the 8.6" required for the Tiguan to match the GTI's height

I don't know - I'm not convinced. 250KG is still a big amount of additional weight, and given the additional height, even if lowered - they'd have to be some awesome tyres and coil overs to match the GTI's corning abilities

I don't believe it either. The power output is good as is AWD, but they aren't a performance car to begin with and centre of gravity would be too high. Some Subaru Foresters are pretty low (lower than the Tig) but still wouldn't be better than a lowered WRX (Same for Tig/GTI)..

I'd consider DSG next time but also dont like the take off lag. You'd hope it makes up the time in the quick gear changes the rest of the time.

[Corey_R]

I'd consider DSG next time but also dont like the take off lag. You'd hope it makes up the time in the quick gear changes the rest of the time.

It seems like it does, as the R is the first model this time around that they're saying that the DSG is faster than the manual again. Although only by .2 seconds.

[Nath]

So I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere, but just been looking over the Oettinger site (side note I really like their RXX wheels, shame they're only 19") and they have the ECU mod for the GTI and one for the R20 up.

Link is here.

But basically the:

GTI tune is an increase from 155kW (210bhp) @ 280nm, up to 184kW (250bhp) @ 360nm, and

R20 tune is an increase from 199kW (270bhp) @ 350nm, up to 228kW (310bhp) @ 430nm.

So if this is all true then a chipped (stg 1) GTI will produce near enough to same as a stock R20.

The 0-100 times are a good read GTI Chipped 6.2, R20 Stock 5.5, chipped 5.1, nice....

shows the difference that AWD has in the stock, even though the chipped GTI has slightly more torque.

[Corey_R]

Good news. I'm glad Oettinger have finally updated their site with the R20 tune as it verifies what I've been saying in here for the last few months based on the APR tunes (which unfortunately don't have 0 to 100 times).

But yeah, even though a GTI will get similar power to a stock R, it'll have nowhere near the real world performance - even though it'll probably feel more 'lively' because it's only FWD.

Btw, the Oettinger tunes are always a little more 'mild' than the APR tunes...

[backdoc]

So I don't know if this has been discussed here or elsewhere, but just been looking over the Oettinger site (side note I really like their RXX wheels, shame they're only 19") and they have the ECU mod for the GTI and one for the R20 up.

Link is here.

But basically the:

GTI tune is an increase from 155kW (210bhp) @ 280nm, up to 184kW (250bhp) @ 360nm, and

R20 tune is an increase from 199kW (270bhp) @ 350nm, up to 228kW (310bhp) @ 430nm.

So if this is all true then a chipped (stg 1) GTI will produce near enough to same as a stock R20.

The 0-100 times are a good read GTI Chipped 6.2, R20 Stock 5.5, chipped 5.1, nice....

shows the difference that AWD has in the stock, even though the chipped GTI has slightly more torque.

With weight advantage the GTI has by not having the AWD, can someone do the math, but the chipped GTI would go close to matching the power to weight ratio of a stock R20. Interesting the stock R20 is still 7 tenths quicker to 100 despite this. Can't beat AWD

[G-rig]

I'd expect the Golf R to get around 240 kW with the APR tune as it's the same engine as the Pirelli..

[Corey_R]

lol G-rig... um, yeah, the APR Tune for the R will get 240kw, same as the S3 and TT-S, since they share the same engine... the APR Pirelli tune only gets 228kw though, as it's not quite the same engine or intercooler. The Pirelli has a different compression ratio (which they believe if possibly due to different pistons) and a slightly smaller intercooler.

@backdoc - the Oettinger's 184KW puts the GTI at 133kw per ton. The stock 199kw of the R puts it at 132kw per ton.

[G-rig]

Yeah that's it, nice.

[dave_r]

ie; Did they just say to expect R32 pricing and go from there. Therefore your spec below being about the $63k mark?

Order was based on the assumption that its equal to R32 pricing. I have it subject to pricing and spec which will be sufficient to walk away if required but I don't want to as there isn't any other new car under $80k that I like.

2. I want to test drive both DSG and manual (to see if I can live with the DSG as up till now, no DSG has convinced me otherwise)

I do love a manual and the VW one is a good unit but I can live with a few of the DSG quirks for convenience.

DSG on the R will just be the same as on the MKV R32 and MKV/6 GTI... what do you expect may change?

Are you sure they are the same? I drove a MK5 R32 and MK6 GTI both with DSG and was convinced that that R32 DSG was very lazy and clunky in comparison to the MK6?

[Mk6 GTI]

I don't believe it either. The power output is good as is AWD, but they aren't a performance car to begin with and centre of gravity would be too high. Some Subaru Foresters are pretty low (lower than the Tig) but still wouldn't be better than a lowered WRX (Same for Tig/GTI)..

I'd consider DSG next time but also dont like the take off lag. You'd hope it makes up the time in the quick gear changes the rest of the time.

oww it sure does! lol

[elisiX]

Thanks for that dave-.

Did the guys you dealt with seem like they would be negotiating at all on the initial R's that come, or was everything was based on pure RRP inc dealer delivery etc and no discount?

Without a discount, and based on the figures Corey looked at earlier for me (using R32 pricing), a 5DR, DSG, Leather, Xenon's, Sunroof R20 will end up $66-68k and $62-63 with 8-10% off. I really hope they deal upfront.

Bring on the official pricing already!!!!!!!!!

[Corey_R]

Are you sure they are the same? I drove a MK5 R32 and MK6 GTI both with DSG and was convinced that that R32 DSG was very lazy and clunky in comparison to the MK6?

Yeah - as far as I'm aware there are only two DSG gearboxes in use by VW. The original 6-speed wet-clutch DSG, and the new 7-speed dry-clutch DSG used on the newer models (it has a lower torque rating though).

[elisiX]

Ok so I just got off the phone with my dealer and told him I want to buy an R instead. We are keeping the GTI order open because they will be able to sell it easily anyway. If the R is too expensive, which we should find out soon, well before the GTI arrives, then I will take the GTI. Too expensive meaning over $65k for a 5DR DSG, Leather, Xenon, Sunroof R. So basically if pricing is in line, I will take one of the first off the boat with as close a spec as I can find to what I want. He said most cars should be fitted with MDI so that might also be included for around that money. I will just have to either cough up the money for Nav at the time if one is available initially pre-fitted, if not I can retro fit through Derek or the like I believe. Ill be happy either way really but I would prefer the R over the GTI for a few reasons, most of which i've already pointed out in the thread. The plan is to finance $60k max (vs $55k on the GTI) and pay the difference in cash up to about $5k.

[G-rig]

Interesting to see if there is any discount on the R or not. My dealer up here reckons no discount and it will be more expensive than the R32 as well.

[elisiX]

Yup - That will play a huge role in the final decision. If they wont budge, ill gladly take the GTI. Unlike ever before, I will try to keep this car for 4 years at least, so I am not overly concerned with resale.

I just think that over a longer period of time, 4 years compared with the usual 2, I will be happier for longer with the increased overall performance of the R.