Polo GTI APR ECU Upgrade

[Corey_R]

When you say you have spoken to a few Audi mechanics who all know how APR program switching works? Do you mean, that they know how to perform it via the cruise control? Or do you mean they know how to read the ECU with a computer to see whether it's been flashed or not?

Because whilst how to switch via cruise control is fairly common knowledge, the security lockout takes care of that. Unless you first enter a 4 digit pin, the cruise control switching doesn't function, leaving no hint that a tune is there (if you've put it back to stock obviously).


But yeah. I'm in two minds about this dishonesty towards the dealers anyway. I kinda figure, if you're picking an aftermarket tuning company that you think you're going to have engine/drivetrain issues after using, then you're probably picking the wrong damn tuning company! lol

We then get onto the issue of, are you going to change anything else? Intake filter? Entire intake? Exhaust? People often go on to change one ot these items or more. What's the obsession with attempting to hide the ECU if you're got aftermarket hardware in plain sight?

[gavs]

Brilliant point corey. I contacted my dealer and while they weren't against tuning they did suggest to maybe wait a bit seeing as it's a new model and maybe until the warranty runs out too. More than happy for suspension mods etc

[Corey_R]

Well it's not like suspension mods have ever caused warranty issues (lol, they have, just in case people didn't get the sarcasm).

I think that if you were serious about getting your ECU updated, if you DID wait until the warranty had finished, you'd be KICKING YOURSELF once you did get it done... for waiting so long. I can't believe I waited 1500km

[noone]

I'm confused about the security lockout... If someone was looking to see if the APR was installed and it requested a security code, wouldn't that imply its been tuned or is the security stock as well?

[Corey_R]

It doesn't request the security code... otherwise, as you mentioned, it'd be pointless!

Basically, APR ECU with switching, put it in stock mode, enable the security switch, and then there is no way to tell that the car has been flashed*. It's just like getting in any other normal stock car. No different lights, beeps, anything.

So if the system is locked, you turn on the ignition (but not turn on the engine).
Move the cruise control to on (flick it off then on if it was already on).
Press the "set" button the number of time as your first digit of your code (i.e. four times for 4)
Flick the cruise control off and then back on, enter the next digit and repeat.
Once your fourth digit is entered and you've flicked the cruise control off, the Check Engine Light and EPC light will alternate flashing.

From memory you turn the ignition off again and then do the switching process, which is just putting the ignition on, turning on cruise control, and then holding down the set button. After 5 seconds the CEL will flash once per second indicating you've selected program one, another 5 seconds and it'll flash twice per second, indicating program two is selected etc.


* When talking to a local ECU tuner who writes code themselves (I don't know if they want to be named or not) they indicated that they could interogate an ECU and determine that "someones" flash was there. There'd basically be encrypted data in areas of the memory where there should be data (or something to that effect - please don't flame me, I'm not an ECU coder myself!). But when we discussed the interactions he's had with dealers he admitted that it wasn't something the dealers would do. Whether they don't know HOW to do it or whether it's not worth their time or what, I don't know.

[CustomSpooling]

* When talking to a local ECU tuner who writes code themselves (I don't know if they want to be named or not) they indicated that they could interogate an ECU and determine that "someones" flash was there. There'd basically be encrypted data in areas of the memory where there should be data (or something to that effect - please don't flame me, I'm not an ECU coder myself!). But when we discussed the interactions he's had with dealers he admitted that it wasn't something the dealers would do. Whether they don't know HOW to do it or whether it's not worth their time or what, I don't know.

Yes that is correct. There is Flash counters and some companies will tell you that they reset the flash counter during their flash but there is more than one flash counter, in fact on some of the VAG models there is a flash counter embedded in the instrument cluster.

Alot of the "big tuning" companies today that can only offer generic flashes will attempt to gain customers by fooling them into believing there flashes are not detectable - That is just another line of crap. Those guys don't even tune cars as they work from a library of files they got from somewhere.

Don't be fooled! If a car was tuned it can be detected if need be.

[Corey_R]

Well, forgive me if I don't take the word of a newbie with 3 posts over a small competitor to the "big tuning companies" who does write their own ECU code and says that the counters can be set to their preflash values. But as I've said before, if you guys are that worried about concealing things from your dealers, then maybe tuning a brand new car is not really something you should be doing.

[CustomSpooling]

Well, forgive me if I don't take the word of a newbie with 3 posts over a small competitor to the "big tuning companies" who does write their own ECU code and says that the counters can be set to their preflash values. But as I've said before, if you guys are that worried about concealing things from your dealers, then maybe tuning a brand new car is not really something you should be doing.

Sorry? What does post count matter? A newbie to a forum is not a newbie to tuning or how tuning works.

I am not worried about concealing things from dealers at all, I do not try to lure customers by brainwashing them into a point that a dealer cannot detect their flash as that is incorrect.

For anybody tuning company that actually writes their own SW will understand what I am talking about regarding the "Big Tuning" companies.

[h100vw]

Sorry? What does post count matter? A newbie to a forum is not a newbie to tuning or how tuning works.

I am not worried about concealing things from dealers at all, I do not try to lure customers by brainwashing them into a point that a dealer cannot detect their flash as that is incorrect.

For anybody tuning company that actually writes their own SW will understand what I am talking about regarding the "Big Tuning" companies.

What Corey is saying is, until 3 days ago we hadn't heard of Customspooling in Australia. Building some trust with potential customers, using your name once in a while etc goes a long way to achieving that.

Gavin

[RoknRob]

There is a great video showing how the security code works on the APR website. Corey's right. Unless the dealer guessed that you had an APR ECU upgrade AND guessed your security code, they wouldn't be able to detect it that way. Maybe via some secret flash counter that hadn't been reset, if what CustomSpooling suggests is accurate.

Here's why I care. I didn't get my car through my local dealer (there is only one in my neck if the woods), as they wouldn't be able to provide me one until next year. So they're already peeved at me. They're irrational, I know, but these guys already threatened to not even service the car if I got it from somewhere else. (I often wonder what they're service department would think of those sales tactics.)

So I could just imagine the discussion I would have to have with them about the role of the ECU upgrade, when the fact is it would very rarely have been turned on, because more often than not, I drive with respect to economy, instead of performance.

In other words, it would be nice to have the option of improved performance at times, but not have those rare moments cloud any discussion of warranty issues with a dealer.

[Corey_R]

What Corey is saying is, until 3 days ago we hadn't heard of Customspooling in Australia. Building some trust with potential customers, using your name once in a while etc goes a long way to achieving that.

Gavin

Thanks Gavin. That was my point

And now that I've been made aware that Custom Spooling is a business, it doesn't look good (in my view) that it's taken 3 posts before said businesses representative comes in and starts "putting down" other companies/products rather than just talking about the virtues of their own...

[jazd]

Thanks Gavin. That was my point

And now that I've been made aware that Custom Spooling is a business, it doesn't look good (in my view) that it's taken 3 posts before said businesses representative comes in and starts "putting down" other companies/products rather than just talking about the virtues of their own...

To be fair he never named names.. but I suspect Superchips could be one of the companies he is talking about. I know they claim their Bluefin flash for the TDI Golf wont increase the flash counter.

[Corey_R]

Well... considering he's posting in the APR thread....


My point is, there have been a lot of people recently, both "new companies" (whether new to these forums or actually new) and forum members who are customers of particular brands, going around and making claims of particular companies lying about their claims/features, putting down their products, customer service quality, skill levels, prices, whatever. This usually comes in aggressive posts with absolutely no evidence or proof provided to support the said negative claims against a company - some claims of which could actually be in breach of consumer law in this country if proven to be true (misleading advertising etc). The target isn't always APR, but they seem to be the most common punching bag because they're the biggest with the widest range of products and most far reaching marketing.

It would be nice if these companies and customers of other brands would concentrate on telling us the virtues of THEIR products, building trust by nicely answering peoples questions and supporting other forum members in their enquiries etc, rather than attempting to gain business/support for their brand by putting down all the other brands.

[Sharkie]

Have a look at the June MOTOR magazine.

APR tuned Polo GTI quicker than a Focus RS despite having 60kw less than the RS.

All you need is the APR ECU, CAI and upgraded FMIC .....

Imagine what its going to be like fully developed with LSD, tuned DSG and bigger turbo ....

And BTW with its suspension and brake mods just less than 1s a lap slower than the Stg 3 Golf GTI whilst being quicker per lap than the RS as well ......

Still to see any other tuner do so much work for a complete package in Australia ......

[Guy_H]

Just got a copy of the article - The Polo's lap times were awesome considering what it gave away at Vmax speed to all the "Big Block" cars!