Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[arcadelt]

Really? You can't see any immediate & future losses?

Trade-in value of the car is immediately lost.

In all likelihood, power will be lost & running costs will increase.

Actually, I can't. Trade-in values are constantly fluctuating, based on all sorts of factors, the most influential of which are odometer readings and age. There may be a dip in the values while the 'crisis' is obvious and present, but a new equilibrium will be found once the cars are fixed and the issue fades from memories. The lesson, which is the same in the stock market, is don't be a distressed seller and lock in your losses.

With respect to power and running costs, these change too as cars age, so will you really notice in time?

[arcadelt]

Their actions affect resale value as well.

How could you possibly measure that when there are so many other variables swirling around resale/trade in values, such as age, distance travelled, the number of cars in the marketplace and economic factors - there is no way to conduct a controlled experiment to put a figure on it.

[Ryeman]

Different yes, but not totally different!

The analogies you cite paint a picture of products that are fundamentally changed as a result of deceit, but a Volkswagen car is not fundamentally changed. The looks are the same, the colour is the same, the handling is the same, the comfort is the same, etc, etc...and even after the fix is applied, the car will not be totally different, but may be somewhat different with slightly less fuel economy and/or power (but probably not so much that the average person will notice), yet it will be cleaner too - so on balance, perhaps one could argue a 1 to 2% difference between marketing and reality. I'd argue that the standard deviation between marketing and reality for most products advertised today (wow, have a look at the cosmetic industry for example) would ordinarily be greater than that range anyway, so in my mind makes the actually difference nearly negligible.

The question then that remains to be answered (and I haven't seen it anywhere yet) is what was the cumulative impact of the extra emissions to both people and the environment. This links to an owners expectations of virtuousness, and is where the difference between marketing and reality could be tangible - but oh so difficult to measure.

If you're prepared to underwrite the EGR's longevity post 'adjustment' I'm on board.
IT's the ONE reason that VW resist longer warranty periods......they aren't confident it'll last......
VW, you are being challenged to back up your talk!

[arcadelt]

by announcing an increase in the warranty period for ALL VAG products from 3 to 5 years and 100 to 160K

A great idea, but one that only benefits those that have cars that are less than 5 years old. The issue affects cars from as far back as 2008, so assuming the increased warranty started today, owners of cars from 2008 to 2010 would get no benefit out of this proposal.

[Rawcpoppa]

How could you possibly measure that when there are so many other variables swirling around resale/trade in values, such as age, distance travelled, the number of cars in the marketplace and economic factors - there is no way to conduct a controlled experiment to put a figure on it.

To think that the negative press has not had a detrimental effect on resale value is to be naive regardless of all the other factors you mentioned. Don't take my word for it. It's already affecting posters in the US with dealers giving ridiculously low trade in values on TDI vehicles specifically.

Don't take my word for it again: KBB: VW diesel prices have dropped 16%

I do not think those price drops are coincidence considering all the other things around resale.

[arcadelt]

To think that the negative press has not had a detrimental effect on resale value is to be naive regardless of all the other factors you mentioned. Don't take my word for it. It's already affecting posters in the US with dealers giving ridiculously low trade in values on TDI vehicles specifically.

Don't take my word for it again: KBB: VW diesel prices have dropped 16%

I do not think those price drops are coincidence considering all the other things around resale.

Yes, but that is only a factor if you sell now or in the very short term - the losses won't stick forever. The other tangible factors will overshadow the sentiment factor when that is no longer the predominant thought in buyers minds.

[arcadelt]

If you're prepared to underwrite the EGR's longevity post 'adjustment' I'm on board.

What is the value of that?

[Rawcpoppa]

Yes, but that is only a factor if you sell now or in the very short term - the losses won't stick forever. The other tangible factors will overshadow the sentiment factor when that is no longer the predominant thought in buyers minds.

Agreed

[Ryeman]

To think that the negative press has not had a detrimental effect on resale value is to be naive regardless of all the other factors you mentioned. Don't take my word for it. It's already affecting posters in the US with dealers giving ridiculously low trade in values on TDI vehicles specifically.

Don't take my word for it again: KBB: VW diesel prices have dropped 16%

I do not think those price drops are coincidence considering all the other things around resale.

A great idea, but one that only benefits those that have cars that are less than 5 years old. The issue affects has from as far back as 2008, so assuming the increased warranty started now owners of cars from 2008 to 2010 would get no benefit out of this proposal.

So what you want is a 7 year unlimited km one, like KIA's?.
VW aren't sure they'll last 5 as it is....what hope 7?

[Eaglen00b]

I for one hope all those wishing to score money from a company due to some law firm scraping the bottom of the barrel fail. I run a business and it's tough enough. What have you lost that needs compensating? Instead, consider how you have had such great fuel economy & power over the years; and not had to refill an adblue bottle every month. Saving money the whole time... Appreciate what you have


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You have GOT to be trolling.

Adverse effects on resale/trade in values, fixes to likely result in degraded performance/fuel economy, breach of public trust, etc?

Ability to forward plan and implementation of robust risk management/mitigation strategies. These are some of the basics of running your own business. Maybe that's why it's "tough" eh?

[Eaglen00b]

Over the years, I've had customers who haven't paid what's owed for my hard work and goods costing me a fortune. Typically, they're scumbag scammers or white collar criminals. To get the law to provide justice is a joke. Unless you're happy to spend a fortune to get solicitors involved.

Scumbag scammers/white collar criminals will always be around. I think you just need to overhaul your accounts and billing processes.

[Ryeman]

To think that the negative press has not had a detrimental effect on resale value is to be naive regardless of all the other factors you mentioned. Don't take my word for it. It's already affecting posters in the US with dealers giving ridiculously low trade in values on TDI vehicles specifically.

Don't take my word for it again: KBB: VW diesel prices have dropped 16%

I do not think those price drops are coincidence considering all the other things around resale.

What is the value of that?

What price confidence?.
Its simple.....EXTEND WARRANTIES and they get an immediate 'sugar hit' from the media......at least silence them.....and back you're product.....it's not rocket surgery

[Eaglen00b]

When you buy a tune, you know what you are buying and what the trade-offs are.

I'm not sure why you folk defending VWs actions don't comprehend that the product was promoted, marketed and sold as being one thing and the reality was totally different.

Vested interests. The folks defending VW's conduct and actions should come clean and preface their comments (or at least declare their financial/business interests in servicing/parts supply etc for VW vehicles in their signatures at the bottom of their comments).

[brad]

- so on balance, perhaps one could argue a 1 to 2% difference between marketing and reality..

A simple software update to change the lock-up point of the torque convertor on the automatic transmission of our diesel Captiva resulted in a 20%+ increase in average fuel consumption from 8L/100 to 9.7L/100.

I'm not sure where you get 1%-2% from. I assume you are just pulling numbers out of the air.

[arcadelt]

Vested interests. The folks defending VW's conduct and actions should come clean and preface their comments (or at least declare their financial/business interests in servicing/parts supply etc for VW vehicles in their signatures at the bottom of their comments).

OK, I declare up front that I have no interest in VW except that I am an owner of two of their cars.

That said, I am not defending VW for what they did, but just challenging immoderate thinking that this is a huge disaster and/or some reason to gain a windfall. The moderate approach is that the company and its officials are appropriately punished for their misdemeanour by the authorities, and that owners of affected cars will get them rectified at the company's expense, with perhaps a moderate amount of compensation for any real losses incurred.