Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[joel0407]

I cant really see the problem. I don't think it's cheating. Did the rules say the car had to perform the same on the road as during the test?

Holden do it with a Bi-Model exhaust. It's quiet to meet noise emissions but drive it out the door and hit the loud pedal and it's exactly that. So is Holden being fined as well? For cheating emission tests?

[bluey]

I don't think you'll have a case if you bought one after this broke.

In this case the problem is with a vehicle manufactured to be illegal (at least in USA and unethical elsewhere). VW will be fixing them wherever they are.

[ducksonetime]

I cant really see the problem. I don't think it's cheating. Did the rules say the car had to perform the same on the road as during the test?

Holden do it with a Bi-Model exhaust. It's quiet to meet noise emissions but drive it out the door and hit the loud pedal and it's exactly that. So is Holden being fined as well? For cheating emission tests?

Hilarious. You refer to them as "the rules" as if it's a game and then say it's okay to break them if someone else does?!

I've read about this guy killing his spouse for the insurance money - what a cheater! I guess it's okay for everyone to cheat too now in similar fashion? I mean, we can't just let this guy win the game, right?

It's not "the rules" it's law, which is why there is the possibility of criminal charges, and they were broken knowingly which makes it all the worse.

[Transporter]

Transporter will be pleased.

Why would I be, what a nonsense to post?

[bluey]

Interesting, there are 3 generations of 2.0L TDI presumably all under the EA189 designation


Anyone know the details of the three??[...]

According to this tdiclub post, USA includes more that EA189.
TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

Gen 1 = 2009 - 2014 Golf, Jetta, Sportwagen, Beetle, A3 (EA189 without SCR/urea)
Gen 2 = 2012 - 2014 Passat (EA189 with SCR/urea)
Gen 3 = 2015+ all 4-cylinder models (EA288 with SCR/urea)

Gen 1 will likely require an SCR/urea retrofit
Gen 2 & 3 will likely only require programming changes

Worldwide announcement was that EA189 are affected. No diesels in our market have SCR/urea "Adblue", probably because they don't need it between our lax emissions standards (less vehicle smog that LA) and higher cetane diesel than USA. Higher cetane (min 40 USA vs min 46 Australia vs VW spec 51) creates much less of a NOX problem.

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations on 2009+ TDIs spark huge recall, investigations

Horn said that the EA 288 (gen 3) contains the cheat code, although he maintains that it isn't used. They will be required to remove it before refiling for emissions certification.

EA 189 comprises the aforementioned gen 1 and gen 2, with gen 1 being without SCR, and gen 2 being with SCR (Passats).

[hoi polloi]

In this case the problem is with a vehicle manufactured to be illegal (at least in USA and unethical elsewhere). VW will be fixing them wherever they are.

That's true but I was specifically referring to people buying a car after this broke with the intent of getting a windfall or compensation above just the fix.

- Anthony

[bluey]

That's true but I was specifically referring to people buying a car after this broke with the intent of getting a windfall or compensation above just the fix.

I was too. This is not a fix limited to "original owners". If you own one, they will be fixing it. There is only a "windfall" if an owner is silly enough to think of off loading their vehicle for cheap or someone convinces them to do it. In which case good luck. Unless they are preying on an old person, in which case may they burn at the stake and rot in hell.

[bluey]

Language bias keeps a lot of good information away from English speakers. Found this - machine translation:
VW-Diesel EA 189: Rückruf, Software-Update, Nachrüstung | Technik

Berlin - VW is up to the world eleven million diesel vehicles recall. VW, VW Commercial Vehicles, Audi, Skoda and Seat are affected by the gas scandal, more than 60 models with three engines (1.2-liter three-cylinder, 1.6 and 2.0-liter four-cylinder type "EA 189 ") and two transmission options (manual switch and dual-clutch transmission). Overall, it comes to about 10,000 drive and model combinations. The engineers are working on solutions. Depending on the country and vehicle there are differences in emission standards, vehicle models and fuel quality. All this must comply with the developers.

In the best case could range a software update. In some engines, the nitrogen oxide emissions must be drastically reduced it. Here you can read all about technical backgrounds, the current state and foreseeable modifications.

WHICH ENGINES IS AT STAKE?

VW has in the United States at 480,000 vehicles with 2.0-liter diesel of the type "EA 189" subsequently improve exhaust emissions, including 14,000 Audi A3. Around the world, more engine capacity variants added: Affected are 1.2-liter three-cylinder and 1.6-liter four-cylinder of the same type. VW is currently examining whether some motor-vehicle combinations pass the tests even without cheating software. According to VW CEO Matthias Müller, the program is not active in all cars. The current generation of engines ("EA 288", since 2012 in use in Germany) is not affected, according to VW, even the Euro 5 versions.

WHAT VW NEEDS TO DO NOW?

VW must reach the prescribed standards: In Europe, the Euro 5 standard, in the US the "Tier 2 Bin 5" standard or the California standard "LEV II ULEV-". The affected vehicles crashed in the test of 800 milligrams of nitrogen oxides per kilometer. Germany allowed 180 milligrams (Euro 5 emissions standard), the United States 31 milligrams at the same distance. Put to the test have to be right, the values without additional software. Exciting and important: The nitrogen oxide emissions on the road will continue to differ from the desired values to the test.

AS VW IMPROVES EXHAUST EMISSIONS?

Some models could reach the targets with a software update. When tested US-Passat an increase of AdBlue injection amount could be enough to reduce the nitrogen oxide emissions sufficiently. The SCR systems installed VW in Germany but only in the subsequent generation of engines. In the US, there are SCR catalytic converters in VW since the model 2012.

In all other engines VW could affect the regeneration of the NOx Speicherkats and the mixture formation with a new ECU software. Another fuel-oxygen ratio could reduce the temperature in the combustion chamber, thus reducing the formation of nitrogen oxides. A higher rate of regeneration or greater Speicherkats would also improve the exhaust aftertreatment.

In the motors can be changed mechanically little. The EA 189 reduce nitrogen oxide emissions already by a cooled exhaust gas recirculation. More modern injectors may distribute the mixture better and reduce the formation of nitrogen oxides. Retrofitting of an SCR system would be expensive and time-consuming. At least for the US, we include this option but not completely.

Other manufacturers use a low compression ratio. This measure is for VW engines out of the question: An upgrade would be a great engagement and would change the engine fundamentally.

[bluey]

Another - German article - machine translation

Sounds like the fix was cooked in the pressure cooker leading up to the Golf Mk 6 launch.

Continental-Software verwendet?: Bericht: Geständnisse in VW-Abgasskandal - n-tv.de

Sunday, October 04 2015
Continental software used?

Report: confessions in VW exhaust scandal

Looking for the backgrounds of the exhaust scandal at carmaker VW VW more engineers now have to manipulation added. This emerges from a media report. The search for the main perpetrators continues, however.

In the affair of fake emission levels at Volkswagen of internal audit of the company are, according to a press release prior to first confessions. Several VW engineers have consistently testified in interviews to have installed the software manipulation in 2008, reported the newspaper "Bild am Sonntag". At this time, have the diesel engine 189 EA, which was developed at VW since 2005, confessed shortly before serial production.

At that time, no solution had been found, both the exhaust emission standards as well as the cost estimates for the engine would have been complied with. Therefore it had been decided to use the manipulation software that VW engineers gave, according to the "Bild am Sonntag" report on record. Otherwise, the most important for the group motor project would therefore need to be stopped. The manipulated engines had been installed in diesel vehicles from VW worldwide. In Germany, 2.8 million cars are affected.

According to "Bild am Sonntag" It is unclear who gave the order to install the software manipulation. In the interviews with the VW Group Revision several engineers had made allegations against the former head of development Ulrich Hackenberg. This was aware of fraud and allegedly even given him in order. For his role, however, subject contradictory statements before, the newspaper reported. Audi Board Hackenberg, who had worked as head of development for years at VW, had been on leave of absence a week ago. According to "Bild am Sonntag", he did not want to comment on the allegations on request.

Continental: No evidence of an abuse

As the "Bild am Sonntag" reported further, used Volkswagen for manipulation and a software supplier Continental. While there have been used in the 2.0-liter diesel engines Bosch technology used in North America, VW has resorted in the smaller 1.6-liter version of the engine control systems, injection pumps and injectors from Continental.

Continental spokesman Felix Gress said the "Bild am Sonntag", his company had no evidence of a misuse of its technology had ". The delivered software could manipulate any exhaust emissions" The controversial program for the admission tests have VW added independently.

Together with suppliers, Volkswagen currently preparing a recall procedure to remove the forbidden technology from the diesel vehicles. While obviously satisfies a computer update on the shop floor at the Bosch software, it is noisy "BamS" expensive and complex, as are required in the Continental System and the engine changes. Among other issues, the injectors are replaced.

Source: n-tv.de, KST / AFP

[Rawcpoppa]

Why would I be, what a nonsense to post?

Your posts generally come across as pro VW and anti persons who have issues, legit or not, with VW

[bluey]

Your posts generally come across as pro VW and anti persons who have issues, legit or not, with VW

Fire extinguishers on. No personal attacks. Play the ball and not the man.

[Rawcpoppa]

Ok. Fair enough.

[Swallowtail]

I cant really see the problem. I don't think it's cheating. Did the rules say the car had to perform the same on the road as during the test?

Holden do it with a Bi-Model exhaust. It's quiet to meet noise emissions but drive it out the door and hit the loud pedal and it's exactly that. So is Holden being fined as well? For cheating emission tests?

Funny post....

To answer the questions

1. Yes
2. No - as their cars do not break regulations (noise or otherwise, regardless of how wide open or gentle you are with the "loud pedal")
3. See 2 above.

Explanation...

The "rules" in the USA specify allowable emissions. They don't specify "on the road" or "in a test". The test is a mechanism used to see if the cars meet the regulations, not a subject of emission rules by itself. The rules also say that attempting to bypass the conditions of the rules is bad and will result in nasty consequences.

Let's use your (really bad) example...

Australia have rules on how noisy cars can be (thank goodness). Hypothetically, Holden make a you-beaut-ute that in normal road use breaks those rules. BUT the hypothetical car has a clever camera that picks up on police uniforms holding dB meters, and makes the car super quiet when it triggers.

Were a non-uniformed police officer or Transport inspector to dB test it and discover the dastardly deed, the car would be defected, Holden would be fined, and cars would be recalled and have to be fixed to meet the pesky rules.

Simple really.

[joel0407]

I don't know what the rules are now in Australia and I'm off to bed so it'll have to wait until tonight for me to look. Many years ago it they said a vehicle had to be under a certain noise limit at when reved at 3000rpm. I don't know how this worked with large trucks that would never reach that higher revs but as for Holden all they need to do is have the butterfly in their exhaust closed until the engine reaches 3000rpm then it can open and be as loud as they think customers can handle. So what's the difference, VW knew how the tests are completed and once that criteria is exceeded the engine pumps more pollution that permissible in a few US states.

I understand the fraudulent claims in miss leading customers but they are not exceeding the Australian Standards.

[Swallowtail]

I understand the fraudulent claims in miss leading customers but they are not exceeding the Australian Standards.

Now THAT is a relevant point that you make, but does need a bit of additional information. Regardless of whether or not the cars' emissions breach standards, the cars were sold as meeting a set of specifications, including levels of emissions. The emissions were understated, so the approved car specs were false. That is illegal.

As yet we have no idea what (if anything) VW Aus will do. The cars are potentially not actually in breach of Australian emissions rules - I don't think that has been fully tested yet (someone correct me please if I am wrong?).

What is irrefutably the case is that the cars (millions of them) breach European and USA rules, and do so deliberately. Hence the scandal. What impact and potential "fixes" that means for us here I don't think anyone can say yet. VW may choose to apply the same fixes here as they do overseas, or they may not...