Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Bayman]

And the plot thickens

Volkswagen Withdrew All Of Its 2016 Diesel EPA Certification Requests

"In his testimony to Congress earlier today, Volkswagen USA CEO Michael Horn revealed that the company has pulled back on its current EPA certification applications for 2016 model year diesels, delaying sales of new models indefinitely.

The issue over a software device fitted to over 400,000 Diesel Volkswagen models that violates compliance with EPA regulations will now delay any future sales of their upcoming Diesel models as well, like the 2016 Passat.

The company has previously submitted its 2016 diesel models to be certified for sale in the US by the EPA, but with the revelation that over three generations of VW diesel engines cheated in their certification tests, the company has removed its submission, preventing the new cars from being sold at all."

Volkswagon have a worldwide shovel and just digging them holes deeper, really stupid! But give the yanks their due, he did admit they screwed up, but now he needs to pay up......BIG TIME! Money generally talks

[ian]

Mines affected. Just rang them VW. Australia have no information on what the fix is. Only that it will be a software upgrade you can ring them direct on 1800 607 822.

[bluey]

VW USA CEO testimony to be presented to Congress:

Volkswagen USA CEO To Congress: I Was Told We Got Caught In 2014

Interesting, there are 3 generations of 2.0L TDI presumably all under the EA189 designation

there are three groups of vehicles involved, each containing one of the three generations of the 2.0L diesel engine. Each will require a different remedy, but these remedies can only be our first step for our customers.

Anyone know the details of the three??

As far as I can find so far, there is "Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine", dated 2008, which (describes oxidation cat + DPF) + NOX cat + sulphur cat.

"Self Study Program 820433 The EA288 Diesel Engine Family Design and Function", dated 2014 , describes just the (oxidation cat + DPF) unit.

Displacement, cylinder spacing, stroke and bore ratio are shared between the EA189 and the new EA288 gasoline engines. The new EA288 engine design forms the basis for all future inline diesel engines at Volkswagen. Several sub-assemblies were redesigned in the EA 288 family of 4-cylinder diesel engines to satisfy future emission standards.

Somewhere between the start of EA189 and EA288, there are a couple of minor revisions.

[PassatB6]

How is this sensible journalism? His reason for still the same as a lot of the apologists on here; "I think that they didn't do it on purpose" - nothing based on fact, quality journalism right there.

If you read the article, the writer didn't say that at all. He said that in his opinion it is unlikely that the Board knew and approved of the software cheat and it was likely a small group of engineers went with this solution on their own accord. He does not excuse VW in any way. He also says that the cars are still excellent vehicles and the current models are unaffected by the recall, hence he could see why they are still an attractive proposition for purchase.

[ducksonetime]

If you read the article, the writer didn't say that at all. He said that in his opinion it is unlikely that the Board knew and approved of the software cheat and it was likely a small group of engineers went with this solution on their own accord. He does not excuse VW in any way. He also says that the cars are still excellent vehicles and the current models are unaffected by the recall, hence he could see why they are still an attractive proposition for purchase.

Yes exactly "in his opinion".

"“Why I would still buy a Volkswagen”?

Well, it’s actually rather simple.

The first and most important thing is that no company, particularly one as large as Volkswagen (with more than 650,000 employees) would put its own financial future in such enormous jeopardy by systematically cheating emission laws – particularly ones that carry such enormous penalties."

Umm yes they would, business is all about risk vs reward. Let's take the CEO's position for example; the risk was possibly having to step down as CEO and receiving a very nice severance package if/when they were caught, the reward was having a strong performing engine and therefore strong sales.]

"There’s no doubt in my mind that the board of Volkswagen were unaware of these defeat devices."

Okay well, as long as there's not doubt in your mind there's not need for any evidence I guess... LOL did VW pay for this article?!

But let's give him the benefit of the doubt for a second and assume no senior management knew about it. So... they didn't know so it's okay? What else do they not know about and what other company/environment/health/performance jeopardising decisions are they letting "a small group of engineers" decide for themselves with global effects? How is this a good reason to continue to buy from VAG? Imagine if it was something else like, I don't know, your car consumed a litre of oil between services (lol). The board didn't know your car did that - an engineer made that decision so stop complaining!

I think what you really mean by "finally some sensible journalism" is "here is an article that makes me feel better about the marque". Who cares that it is based solely on the opinion - who needs facts and evidence?

To further quote the article: "The gas at the centre of all this is NOx – a generic term for the mono-nitrogen oxides NO and NO2 (nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide), which has been linked to infant death syndrome, asthma and whatever other respiratory illness you can find". Don't worry, mate - the board didn't know about it!

Nope, the only way forward is to 'fess up, fix it and not do it again.

[Sunny43.5]

Dear Volkswagen customer,

We wish to confirm that your vehicle with the Vehicle Identification Number you submitted as at 08/10/2015 08:21:39 AM, is not affected by software that causes discrepancies in the values for oxides of nitrogen (NOx) during dynometer runs.

2010 VW Transporter 2.0 7spd DSG

Just as well as I only ever drive my van on a dyno


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got the same reply when I checked ours , I am still not convinced that this debacle will not have an adverse effect on resale as VW,s name is pretty much mud already after the DSG debacle a couple of yeas back

[bluey]

Haven't read anything from a journalist on this issue that has illuminated much factual detail so far. The reality according to ICCT papers linked earlier in this thread is that nearly all diesels emit more NOX in real world tests.
NOx control technologies for Euro 6 diesel passenger cars | International Council on Clean Transportation[Press release] New ICCT study shows real-world exhaust emissions from modern diesel cars seven times higher than EU, US regulatory limits | International Council on Clean Transportation
The latest ICCT paper on euro6 models shows Hyundai, Renault and Volvo at 6-14x and the VW was exemplary.

Nobody has reported on the effect of low cetane US fuel on worse NOX emissions performance. Nobody has reported on the problems with WVU research rig (resistance equivalent to about 3m of extra exhaust pipe) that measured the headline 35x figure. Would be nice to see some research comparing the output of a bad test rig to a good test rig on a real vehicle.

Of course there is no question that specific code which detects the emissions test cycle and uses a different engine map for that is unconscionable. (There is still no factual account of the code in question.) The fact that most car diesels have issues with worse NOX performance in a real world test suggests they are all playing on the edge of legal. Corporations do many things bordering on unethical which are nevertheless legal (just) - profit-shifting to avoid tax is something that many people using family trusts as well as multinational corporations using different countries do. Not apologising for anyone but that is the world we live in.

[ducksonetime]

Haven't read anything from a journalist on this issue that has illuminated much factual detail so far. The reality according to ICCT papers linked earlier in this thread is that nearly all diesels emit more NOX in real world tests.
NOx control technologies for Euro 6 diesel passenger cars | International Council on Clean Transportation[Press release] New ICCT study shows real-world exhaust emissions from modern diesel cars seven times higher than EU, US regulatory limits | International Council on Clean Transportation
The latest ICCT paper on euro6 models shows Hyundai, Renault and Volvo at 6-14x and the VW was exemplary.

Nobody has reported on the effect of low cetane US fuel on worse NOX emissions performance. Nobody has reported on the problems with WVU research rig (resistance equivalent to about 3m of extra exhaust pipe) that measured the headline 35x figure. Would be nice to see some research comparing the output of a bad test rig to a good test rig on a real vehicle.

Of course there is no question that specific code which detects the emissions test cycle and uses a different engine map for that is unconscionable. (There is still no factual account of the code in question.) The fact that most car diesels have issues with worse NOX performance in a real world test suggests they are all playing on the edge of legal. Corporations do many things bordering on unethical which are nevertheless legal (just) - profit-shifting to avoid tax is something that many people using family trusts as well as multinational corporations using different countries do. Not apologising for anyone but that is the world we live in.

There's is a difference between being an apologist and realistic. I agree with you 100%.

[Arnold]

Hopefully this is sorted out soon and isolated to the United States and not a global issue for Volkswagen:
US accuses Volkswagen of illegal pollution
Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution | Business | The Guardian
EPA: Volkswagen used ‘defeat device’ to illegally skirt air-pollution controls - The Washington Post
Feds allege widespread Volkswagen cheating on clean-air rules
Volkswagen, Audi admit to cheating pollution tests in the US

I am sure you're right. US only; sorted out in two shakes; and not a big issue for VAG or its shareholders. D'oh!

It turns out that this is likely to be a much bigger and further-reaching scandal than was the disconnecting of odometers on Chryslers during employee test drives.

[dero]

13%... so far.....
Volkswagen resale prices drop 13 percent

[Rawcpoppa]

13%... so far.....
Volkswagen resale prices drop 13 percent

Transporter will be pleased.

[bluey]

Reading this report and the comments,it appears that testing a modern vehicle with advanced traction control is a non-trivial exercise, since the car will not behave itself on the dyno like it might on the road.

Here's How Much Horsepower Volkswagens Lose From Their Diesel Defeat Device

So it may in fact be required to have a "test mode" to enable the vehicle to be tested, without generating odd behaviour.

Perhaps it was the need for a "test mode" that led engineers down a path of different modes for test and road and different emissions in each scenario. Knowing that other manufacturers probably all did similar (based on evidence of ICCT reports) may have given engineers reasons to think they should continue down this path.

[bluey]

13%... so far.....
Volkswagen resale prices drop 13 percent

May be short lived when people figure there is money to be made from VW by owning one.

[Rawcpoppa]

New details on fixes

VW's diesel fix will not affect fuel economy, may take two years to complete | Fox News


Testifying before the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Thursday, Volkswagen of America CEO Michael Horn said that several remedies are in the works to bring nearly a half-million of the company’s diesel cars on the road in the United States in compliance with emissions standards without dramatically affecting their performance.

The cars were found to have emissions testing defeat devices installed that allowed them to pass EPA lab tests, while emitting up to 40 times the allowable level of nitrogen oxide emissions in real world driving.

Horn says the remedies are still in development, but that he has been informed that 2015 model year cars should require only new software, while 2009-2014 model year vehicles will need to undergo mechanical upgrades. 2016 models, which are on dealer lots but do not yet have the EPA certification that would allow them to be sold, will also get a software update.

Volkswagen has no intention to buy back the cars outright, Horn said.

The older cars will have a urea exhaust injection system and likely a redesigned catalytic converter installed to bring their nitrogen oxide emissions in compliance. Horn said that this could require five to 10 hours of labor for each vehicle.

However, while many of the affected consumers have voiced concerned that changes made to the cars would affect their fuel efficiency or power, Horn assured the committee that the updated cars will deliver the same miles per gallon that they were originally advertised with, and that any power reduction would only result in a loss of 1 or 2 miles of top speed. The company will consider compensating owners monetarily for any changes to their car's performance.

Horn said that work on the newest cars should begin within a few months, but that the fix for the the 2009-2014 models won't be ready until the middle of 2016. He estimates that it will take one to two years to update all of the cars on the road today.

[hoi polloi]

May be short lived when people figure there is money to be made from VW by owning one.

I don't think you'll have a case if you bought one after this broke.

- Anthony