Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Swallowtail]

August 2015 AU sales figures:

1 Toyota 14,505
2 Hyundai 9,505
3 Mazda 9,166
4 Holden 7,870
5 Mitsubishi 5,574
6 Ford 5,354
7 Volkswagen 4,794
8 Nissan 4,731
9 Subaru 3,361
10 Honda 3,210

September and October will be interesting...

[Ryeman]

This.

Additional thought... imagine you've just paid $35k + for a diesel Golf... VW fix the issue and put them back on sale, but no-one's buying them any more, so to stimulate sales they offer a 6-month campaign knocking $3k off the price plus extended warranty to get them moving and get sales momentum going again. Simple economics tells that affects the resale of every affected car that is already in the market, even once the current technical issues are resolved. Even out 3 to 5 years now there are a bunch of Golfs with extended warranty available, again further damaging resale of existing cars.

The damage has been done already - the questions are how VAG will ride it out, recover, learn, and attempt to minimise the damage to themselves, existing and future customers. And for that as hoi polloi said, only time will tell.

I have a suspicion that the 'Slater&Gordon effect' will have a major bearing on the eventual outcome here in Australia.
As much as VW might chose to belie it, there will be no simple fix, not just in terms of emmissions and consumption but also power and torque.
They can no doubt fix the car economically BUT will they be able to 'fix' the customer as well?

[jrgti]

And it piles on Volkswagen Diesel Scandal 2015: Emissions Likely Killed Up To 94 People In The US, Analysis Shows
I wouldn't know how they came up with the statistics but it is obviously very opportunistic.
I personally don't believe anything most of these so called American experts say anymore after 9/11 and the middle east fiasco but it is what it is. VW has really shot themselves in the foot.

[hoi polloi]

I wouldn't know how they came up with the statistics but it is obviously very opportunistic. VW has really shot themselves in the foot.

This just means the big ticket lawyers are getting involved. This part will drag on for a while - even after the cars are fixed.

No doubt VW will want to settle..

- A.

[Transporter]

And it piles on Volkswagen Diesel Scandal 2015: Emissions Likely Killed Up To 94 People In The US, Analysis Shows
I wouldn't know how they came up with the statistics but it is obviously very opportunistic.
I personally don't believe anything most of these so called American experts say anymore after 9/11 and the middle east fiasco but it is what it is. VW has really shot themselves in the foot.

...and it's really showing how silly some people are. With so much polution around, how are they going to prove it?

Yeah, it's more valid than ever before; take 1/2 of what you read in the media, and doubt that.

[Transporter]

Hi transporter - long time no chat...

I humbly beg to differ... and btw getting a leased car is not a case of being able to 'afford' a new one every 4 years. Looking at a leased car as part of a package, future value is absolutely part of the consideration. As are some of the other aspects I mentioned. What if the impact on resale is $10k? $15k? What if VW gets so 'on the nose' that selling diesel VWs drops out of the market? What does that do to resale for people trying to sell their VWs then?

Just because all here are VW fans (or most at least ) don't lose sight of the fact that a lot fewer people are buying VWs or waiting as a direct result of this. The next round of car sales figures will be telling.

I'm undecided on my purchase (which was going to be for a Touareg and a Golf 110TSi), and I am absolutely certain that I will not be the only one... I'm waiting to see what happens to new car sales figures, resales, recall / remediation action.

You're jumping to too many conclusions.

[Swallowtail]

You're jumping to too many conclusions.

Hi Transporter,

When it comes to the considerations I make in buying / leasing my car, I'm not jumping anywhere and I doubt I am alone. I would say from the posts in this thread that I am far from alone. I have not drawn any conclusions at all, other than those that simple market economics and dynamics will already tell anyone. My comment has been that I will wait and see - so, no, no conclusions yet.

As I said, the new car figures for October will settle that question. Perhaps revisit your assumption on my conclusion-jumping then Transporter.

One comment - you seem to be mistaking that I agree with the assumptions. I am not, I am merely commenting that those assumptions will be made, and that they will impact all VW owners, both current and future.

BTW, when it comes to 'jumping to conclusions' -

I don't think that $5,000 less on the resale value, if you're looking at $120,000 vehicle plays any role. Especially when you can afford to buy a new one every 4 years.

[ASR36]

Does anyone remember toyota's recalls? Also the most recent "hack" of the jeep?

At the moment the only issue is that in America the diesel's farts smell worse than what they should.

In my opinion it seems to be a bigger issue made by the media than what it really is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Transporter]

Hi Transporter,

When it comes to the considerations I make in buying / leasing my car, I'm not jumping anywhere and I doubt I am alone. I would say from the posts in this thread that I am far from alone. I have not drawn any conclusions at all, other than those that simple market economics and dynamics will already tell anyone. My comment has been that I will wait and see - so, no, no conclusions yet.

As I said, the new car figures for October will settle that question. Perhaps revisit your assumption on my conclusion-jumping then Transporter.

One comment - you seem to be mistaking that I agree with the assumptions. I am not, I am merely commenting that those assumptions will be made, and that they will impact all VW owners, both current and future.

BTW, when it comes to 'jumping to conclusions' -

Tell me, how will I be affected, when I'll be buying my new car, replacing my 2010 Tiguan at or after year 2020? I could give it away and still wouldn't be wasting as much money as someone replacing the car every 4 years.

Even in the biggest car markets, which Australia is not, less than 50% car sold are on the lease.

[Swallowtail]

Tell me, how will I be affected, when I'll be buying my new car, replacing my 2010 Tiguan at or after year 2020? I could give it away and still wouldn't be wasting as much money as someone replacing the car every 4 years.

Even in the biggest car markets, which Australia is not, less than 50% car sold are on the lease.

Why the comments about wasting money, not caring about resale if I can 'afford' a $120k car, etc, Transporter? Just not sure what you think jumping to those conclusions adds to the discussion other than commenting on how you feel about me (or anyone else) leasing my cars.

Anyhoo... moving on from that, if you feel that there will be no impact from this on VW here in Australia (or anywhere else, especially where they are made) over the next 5 years, then good luck to you

For one thing, spending $xx billion on rectification, lawsuits, market recovery, etc., will have impact on R&D and product development. What you buy in 2020 may be quite different as a result of this. 'Jumping to conclusions'? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell - which is, funnily enough, what I have been saying all along.

[Transporter]

Anyhoo... moving on from that, if you feel that there will be no impact from this on VW here in Australia (or anywhere else, especially where they are made) over the next 5 years, then good luck to you

Where did I say that there will be no impact on VW? Common, give me some credit, even the fools can figure out that it will cost them money.

[Cossor]

This.

Additional thought... imagine you've just paid $35k + for a diesel Golf... VW fix the issue and put them back on sale, but no-one's buying them any more, so to stimulate sales they offer a 6-month campaign knocking $3k off the price plus extended warranty to get them moving and get sales momentum going again. Simple economics tells that affects the resale of every affected car that is already in the market, even once the current technical issues are resolved. Even out 3 to 5 years now there are a bunch of Golfs with extended warranty available, again further damaging resale of existing cars.

The damage has been done already - the questions are how VAG will ride it out, recover, learn, and attempt to minimise the damage to themselves, existing and future customers. And for that as hoi polloi said, only time will tell.

Good point Swallotail
However, I was told, (Before I bought Passat) that VW preferred adding goodies instead of dropping
price. (While $AU kept rising) in order to keep faith, without reducing value of trade ins.

[PerthMTB]

Good point Swallotail
However, I was told, (Before I bought Passat) that VW preferred adding goodies instead of dropping
price. (While $AU kept rising) in order to keep faith, without reducing value of trade ins.

Unfortunately it's already started to happen.

I've got a diesel Tiguan on order which was due to arrive in November. On October 2nd VW dropped it's price to $1000 less than when I ordered it two months ago - and that's just the list price, I'm sure dealers will now be doing some very attractive deals below list!

Then on October 3rd they suspended sales of the Diesel Tiguan.

You'll see from my posts above that I don't subscribe to all the media hype about the so called 'cheat device', and hope that for Australia at least the impact will prove to be minimal, and in fact at the moment the whole emissions thing is looking like the least of my worries!

Right now I've no idea when I'll get my car, and if the suspension lasts more than a couple of months I'll be getting a 2015 built car in 2016. I'm doubtful whether the price drop since I ordered will be passed onto me, or whether I'll be given a chance to cancel and get my deposit back if delivery is delayed beyond the original schedule, as the contract rules out both these things.

Meanwhile, I've heard nothing from the dealer or VW, all I know is what I've read in the media and on forums like this.

I echo what others have said above - sh*t happens, but it's how the company deals with it that matters, and so far I'm not impressed with the response, or rather lack of!

However, despite an alarming number of people/organisations around the world lining up to 'put the knife in' VW at the moment, there also seems to be a genuine following of VW loyalists (not least on this forum) who are willing to cut them a bit of slack, and give them time to get their act together and do the right thing. Despite this little vent of my frustrations, I still consider myself one of those, but my patience is wearing seriously thin!

[jrgti]

For one thing, spending $xx billion on rectification, lawsuits, market recovery, etc., will have impact on R&D and product development. What you buy in 2020 may be quite different as a result of this. 'Jumping to conclusions'? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell - which is, funnily enough, what I have been saying all along.

So as long as the next GTI/R models they roll out continue to be better than the previous generations. I guess they'll have to focus on building quality premium passenger cars rather than world domination. If they want to compete with Toyota then realistically they will need to build plastic cars like Toyota. I like how they differentiate themselves with that up-market feel in the interior even for entry level passenger cars but too bad this whole fiasco will scale things back.

[bluey]

VAG can make 103kW and 125kW 2.0L TDI which are essentially identical. Remaps result in similar performance specs to the 125kW TDI out of the 103kW engine otherwise unchanged.

So it would be relatively easy for VAG to provide remaps with more boost to compensate for the possible performance hit from better emissions control tuning. The only downside is for markets with high altitude increasing turbo failure rates, but they could probably live with that given everybody else would be happy.

They could turn this negative spell into something positive!

Curious to know if there are emissions test results from ECU remapped engines?