2015 GTi DSG - Thunk/thump when shifting from 2nd to 3rd

[louis19]

So...let me get this straight.

VW finally offers the Polo GTI with a decent engine (after the 1.4 twincharge catastrophe in the pre-updated Polo GTI) and the option of a proper manual gearbox (which is how it should have been offered since day 1) and people are still buying them with perhaps the most unreliable gearbox (7 speed DSG) in the history of mankind, with literally dozens of people on this forum every week talking about mechatronics replacement, clutch packs burnt out etc etc.

Why are people still buying cars with this gearbox?? Honestly, i am totally baffled as to why.

AMEN! Great question...

[Sydneykid]

So...let me get this straight.
VW finally offers the Polo GTI with a decent engine (after the 1.4 twincharge catastrophe in the pre-updated Polo GTI) and the option of a proper manual gearbox (which is how it should have been offered since day 1) and people are still buying them with perhaps the most unreliable gearbox (7 speed DSG) in the history of mankind, with literally dozens of people on this forum every week talking about mechatronics replacement, clutch packs burnt out etc etc.
Why are people still buying cars with this gearbox?? Honestly, i am totally baffled as to why.

Perhaps only the whining minority is posting their isolated problems whilst the silent majority with no issues at all are not being heard. For example, my twin charger7 speed DSG equipped MK6 Golf has completed 4 years and 75,000 k's without an issue. Maybe the minority are suffering from self inflicted issues caused by poor driving habits and/or servicing.

Cheers
Gary

[Lucas_R]

2015 GTi DSG - Thunk/thump when shifting from 2nd to 3rd

Perhaps only the whining minority is posting their isolated problems whilst the silent majority with no issues at all are not being heard. For example, my twin charger7 speed DSG equipped MK6 Golf has completed 4 years and 75,000 k's without an issue. Maybe the minority are suffering from self inflicted issues caused by poor driving habits and/or servicing.

Cheers
Gary

I wish that was the case - but believe me both the 1.4 twincharge engine and the 7 speed DSG are very well known for all the wrong reasons. But rest assured, i can say with lots of confidence that you will be bitten at some point if you run that engine and gearbox.

Im not disagreeing that some people have potentially brought some of the dramas on themselves by using regular 91 unleaded etc - but there are fundamental issues with that engine and gearbox which eventually catch up with you.

For example the DSG does not like stop/start traffic and slips its clutches and overheats the oil. If you don't live in a busy city then this may not cause a problem - but most of us do live in cities with traffic.

The engine runs so incredibly lean and hot that detonation is inevitable, especially when the DSG labours the engine by wanting to be in the highest gear possible at all times.

[Sydneykid]

I wish that was the case - but believe me both the 1.4 twincharge engine and the 7 speed DSG are very well known for all the wrong reasons. But rest assured, i can say with lots of confidence that you will be bitten at some point if you run that engine and gearbox.

I rest very comfortably thanks. I have no reason to suspect that I will have any issue with the twin charger engine or the 7 speed DSG, they both function perfectly, as they have done for the last 4 years. The hundreds of thousands of people worldwide who also have no issues would most likely agree with me. As is common with the web, far too much emphasis is put on the tiny minority who complain noisily at every opportunity. Whilst ignoring the vast majority who have no reason to complain as they have no issues, hence are silent.

Realistically, if VW had experienced excessive warranty issues worldwide with the 7 speed DSG they would have stopped using it. Plainly whatever issues there are are with the minority, a tiny minority.


Cheers

Gary

[DAL344]

I'm one of the tiny minority who has a problem with the DSG & the change from 2-3 in manual mode. It has been evident since new. I basically don't drive it in manual anymore - simple. Should I not complain on forums or to VW though because I'm in the minority? Its the way of the world - the noisy minority want to be heard...

I bought DSG with the view of handing it on to wifey (which I will be in December) who isn't a fan of manual. I was aware of the issues with the 1.4 engine but didn't do my research on the 7 speed DSG or Polo GTI's in general TBH.

I have faith that any major failures will be addressed by VW - c'est la vie!

[car_nut]

I'm one of the tiny minority who has a problem with the DSG & the change from 2-3 in manual mode. It has been evident since new. I basically don't drive it in manual anymore - simple. Should I not complain on forums or to VW though because I'm in the minority? Its the way of the world - the noisy minority want to be heard...

I bought DSG with the view of handing it on to wifey (which I will be in December) who isn't a fan of manual. I was aware of the issues with the 1.4 engine but didn't do my research on the 7 speed DSG or Polo GTI's in general TBH.

I have faith that any major failures will be addressed by VW - c'est la vie!

+1 to DAL344 and I also have a wife who was brought up on auto's, she never drives my car but it's a just in case thing. Yes I was aware of the DSGs reputation and I don't care, for me it makes the car more enjoyable to drive, I love it!!! and with good driving habits I'm confident it will last beyond the warranty period.

[Lucas_R]

I rest very comfortably thanks. I have no reason to suspect that I will have any issue with the twin charger engine or the 7 speed DSG, they both function perfectly, as they have done for the last 4 years. The hundreds of thousands of people worldwide who also have no issues would most likely agree with me. As is common with the web, far too much emphasis is put on the tiny minority who complain noisily at every opportunity. Whilst ignoring the vast majority who have no reason to complain as they have no issues, hence are silent.

Realistically, if VW had experienced excessive warranty issues worldwide with the 7 speed DSG they would have stopped using it. Plainly whatever issues there are are with the minority, a tiny minority.


Cheers

Gary

Hi Gary - i hope for your sake that you are right and that you never have any issues with your car as the inconvenience and expense would be a pain, and i certainly don't wish that on anybody.

In saying that, you keep referring to "the minority" making complaints. In my opinion for every person who does bother to complain on a public forum about their car issues, there are probably 20 people who would not think to / could not be bothered to voice their opinion on a forum. Actually, the ratio is probably higher than 1:20. Just as an example, there are 2 people (who i know of) at my work who have had issues with the 118TSI engine/gearbox and will never own another VW (ie they have been burnt). In addition, my brothers girlfriend has had the DSG gearbox replaced in her Skoda Fabia after ongoing clutch issues and rough shifting. None of these 3 people have talked about these issues on a public forum.

My brother used to work at both Audi (for about 6 years) and then Skoda (for about 3 years) and believe me, they have their fair share of issues with the 1.4 twincharge and the 7 speed DSG.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Gary - i hope for your sake that you are right and that you never have any issues with your car as the inconvenience and expense would be a pain, and i certainly don't wish that on anybody.

In saying that, you keep referring to "the minority" making complaints. In my opinion for every person who does bother to complain on a public forum about their car issues, there are probably 20 people who would not think to / could not be bothered to voice their opinion on a forum. Actually, the ratio is probably higher than 1:20. Just as an example, there are 2 people (who i know of) at my work who have had issues with the 118TSI engine/gearbox and will never own another VW (ie they have been burnt). In addition, my brothers girlfriend has had the DSG gearbox replaced in her Skoda Fabia after ongoing clutch issues and rough shifting. None of these 3 people have talked about these issues on a public forum.

My brother used to work at both Audi (for about 6 years) and then Skoda (for about 3 years) and believe me, they have their fair share of issues with the 1.4 twincharge and the 7 speed DSG.

Before we bought the Golf I heard about problems people were having so I contacted our fleet guy at VW and he pulled the stats, the claims both inside and outside of warranty ($ and units) weren't markedly different to any other VW model (can't speak for Skoda or Audi). I checked around the company fleet plus friends, acquaintances and friends of friends for any first hand experiences. I found one only, a female who had DSG issues in our fleet. I went for drive with her to experience the problem first hand, the first thing I noticed was that she was driving it like it was an automatic with a torque converter, for example holding on hills with the throttle. A guaranteed clutch burner. I told her that it wasn't an "automatic" but a robotised manual and showed her how to drive it accordingly. When I finished the contract at that company (about 4 months ago) she was happily still driving it.

I think the dealers have some responsibility in not explaining to new owners what a DSG really is (a robotised manual) and what it isn't (an automatic with a torque converter) and what that actually means in daily driving.

Based on my experience I have absolute confidence in the DSG in the Polo GTi, that extends to chipped engine and gearbox.

Cheers
Gary

[iigx]

I'm sorry Gary but with the logic of "It's not an Automatic Gearbox" "and the dealers have some responsibility in not explaining to new owners what a DSG really is" really point to the crux of the issue.

VW markets different variants of both the Golf & Polo as Manual & Automatic. If you sell a car with an Automatic gearbox to someone who is used an an automatic gearbox, people will drive it like they have in the past. If you need to re-educate everyone on how to use a 'new automatic' gearbox, then it is a result of poor design choices in a factory. You design and manufacture something the way it you 'know' it is going to be used, not the way you 'expect' people to use it. If i recall when i took delivery of my Polo, there was no special warning, or even part of the owners manual that told me that I needed to change the way I drive my car compared to previous cars.

An example would be Apple marketing their phones still having a volume up/down & power buttons on their phones, but switching the side of the phone they are on. Because users are used to pressing the left side of the phone to turn the volume up, instead their screen now goes off. While if that is disclosed outright, and people are explained how to use a product differently (in your mention of dealer responsibility) - that should not cause any alarms. It's a very different scenario however, marketing something as 'its the same as you are used to' that then breaks under said 'normal' use case scenario.

In terms of us all debating here what % of the 500K+ 1.4TSI Engines and millions of DQ200 7 speed DSG gearboxes, the simple truth is that the fact there have been MANY global recalls and service advisories and problems with both of these units is enough cause for concern that SOMETHING may happen in the future. There will always be the luck of the draw that has nothing to do with anything but luck that you have no issues, but i'd surmise this is more rare than someone not having any issues at all.

[andrew7]

^ smart boy. More people should follow this guys approach (or buy a manual Polo GTI).

Yep, I've been on this forum for approximately 5-6 years and have seen too many 7 speed DQ200's self destruct during that time. Its a real shame as I have had great experiences with the 6 speed wet clutch with my GTI and R. I would have loved a DSG Polo GTI as a good bang for buck pocket rocket but it'll have to wait a few years until they finally upgrade the transmission (?MQB Polo). In any case, I'm now moving to probably the best/most reliable DSG in the VAG group the high torque 7 speed wet clutch DQ380 in a new Highline diesel Tiggy

[Tuan]

I think everyone has made very valid points here.

Not everyone is a car head so they won't sign up to a car forum to check out the pros and cons of what they are going to buy (either new or second hand). Some people just like the look of a car and they will buy it.

Unless I was a mechanic and had tools and a hoist in a garage, when a particular car has plenty of negative reviews attached to it, I would personally avoid it. I wouldn't want the car breaking down when my wife is driving it, for example.

What's worse, some people are car heads and are on numerous forums but they still miss the obvious ones faults of a particular model of a car i.e. chain tensioner on the EA888 anybody ? Yes I fall into that category (but I think I am ok due to build date of my engine). I researched only the DSG issues (DQ250 is fine) and oil burning issues (car was still under warranty so I accepted it).

It is true that people usually come on to a forum and air their displeasure when something goes wrong with their car - at the same time, there are numerous threads where there are also owners that have nothing but praise for their car.

iigx you make a great point about auto vs dual clutch transmissions and how the dealerships don't advise you on how to drive it "properly". I mean if you couldn't drive a manual properly, the salesman is hardly going to tell you not to buy the car. In other words - most of them couldn't care less. If the buyer doesn't know what a dual clutch is or how to drive it, it's the owner's problem. If they ruin it down the road, it's the owner's problem. If they sell the car out of warranty and the next person has a car with a faulty DSG, that is the new owner's problem.

On the other hand, not all the DQ dual clutch boxes had the same failure rate as the DQ200 .. which then leads me to think that it was possibly not fit for its purpose.

Ford's also had issues (and an outstanding class action) on cars which came with the Powershift dual clutch - their version of the DSG. They've gone back to conventional autos on the those cars ...

Anyway I am old school ... I still prefer a manual

If it's clunking from 2nd to 3rd .. I blame my foot.

[Sydneykid]

I'm sorry Gary but with the logic of "It's not an Automatic Gearbox" "and the dealers have some responsibility in not explaining to new owners what a DSG really is" really point to the crux of the issue.

VW markets different variants of both the Golf & Polo as Manual & Automatic. If you sell a car with an Automatic gearbox to someone who is used an an automatic gearbox, people will drive it like they have in the past. If you need to re-educate everyone on how to use a 'new automatic' gearbox, then it is a result of poor design choices in a factory. You design and manufacture something the way it you 'know' it is going to be used, not the way you 'expect' people to use it. If i recall when i took delivery of my Polo, there was no special warning, or even part of the owners manual that told me that I needed to change the way I drive my car compared to previous cars.

An example would be Apple marketing their phones still having a volume up/down & power buttons on their phones, but switching the side of the phone they are on. Because users are used to pressing the left side of the phone to turn the volume up, instead their screen now goes off. While if that is disclosed outright, and people are explained how to use a product differently (in your mention of dealer responsibility) - that should not cause any alarms. It's a very different scenario however, marketing something as 'its the same as you are used to' that then breaks under said 'normal' use case scenario.

In terms of us all debating here what % of the 500K+ 1.4TSI Engines and millions of DQ200 7 speed DSG gearboxes, the simple truth is that the fact there have been MANY global recalls and service advisories and problems with both of these units is enough cause for concern that SOMETHING may happen in the future. There will always be the luck of the draw that has nothing to do with anything but luck that you have no issues, but i'd surmise this is more rare than someone not having any issues at all.

Your view is your view and you are fully entitled to it and to express it. In my case I don't believe that I am "lucky" I do however have plenty of automotive industry experience and some mechanical qualifications. When we (my wife and I) picked up the Golf, for example, the dealer explained in some detail how the hill start assist worked, how to fold down the rear seats, the process for pairing multiple mobile phones etc. Some of which we were not experienced with in VW speak. However, he did not spend any time on explaining the difference between the robotised manual and the automatic that we traded in, compared to over half an hour explaining the raft of other "features". I was not expecting him to teach us how to drive, just the operational differences, much like what he did in showing us how the automatic windscreen wipers worked.

The work comrade I posted about earlier was most surprised when I explained the differences to her. I simply put it to her that you wouldn't sit at the traffic lights slipping the clutch in a manual would you? Then don't do it in your robotised manual, use the hill start assist. Which the dealer told her about, but didn't explain why she should use it.

To me the robotised manual is simply another feature in the car and should be explained to a new owner just like the many other features that they spend some time on.

Cheers
Gary

[NuffNuff]

they are doing false neutral 2-3 shift, anyone having a problem should see their dealer. take them for a drive hitting 3rd from 2nd half to full throttle at 5k rpm, they will attempt a relearn, reflash/update find it still does it and then replace mechatronics. its important you replicate the issue with them in the car

not sure if any of this banter is actually helping anyone, insulting those that bought a 7 speed dsg. theres other avenues to take if the dealer doesnt want to play ball. essendon VW was very helpful and helped out a few others with the same issue.

driving style and education wont help the 2-3 shift in manual mode S, seeing the dealer will

[Sydneykid]

they are doing false neutral 2-3 shift, anyone having a problem should see their dealer. take them for a drive hitting 3rd from 2nd half to full throttle at 5k rpm, they will attempt a relearn, reflash/update find it still does it and then replace mechatronics. its important you replicate the issue with them in the car.

False neutral? I've never seen a false neutral in a sequential gearbox, I'm not even sure that it's physically possible. In simple terms there are 2 clutch packs, one on the odd numbered gears (1,3,5,7) and one on the even numbered gears (2,4,6). When moving in 2nd gear the even number clutch pack and the 2nd gear ratios are engaged. At the same time the 3rd gear ratio is engaged but the odd number clutch pack is disengaged. On the change from 2nd to 3rd the even number clutch pack disengages and the odd number clutch pack engages. That's how the gear changes can be so swift, there isn't any actual gear changing, just clutch packs engaging and disengaging.

Since there are only 2 clutch packs any issues with them would show up on every change, manual or self shifting modes, not just 2nd to 3rd in manual mode. Similarly 3rd gear ratio engagement is a function of the mechatronics, if they were faulty then it would happen whether manual or self shifting. In summary, it sounds to me more like a software glitch than anything mechanical. Something like the instruction to engage the 3rd gear ratio isn't being issued before the instruction to disengage the even numbered gears clutch pack and engage the odd numbered gears clutch pack.


Cheers
Gary

[Lucas_R]

The 7 speed DQ200 has always has issues with 3rd gear - something to do with the selector fork from memory. The "false neutral" terminology comes from the VW dealerships - might not be the correct explanation for what is actually happening though.

I still remember a few years ago driving a new Skoda Fabia vRS with the same engine/DSG combo as the Polo GTI (1.4 twincharge and DQ200 DSG) and hearing the gearbox make a metallic click/clunk type noise when shifting through 3rd gear.