Arteon Brake upgrade

[Manaz]

That's really interesting. Does the water vapour come from the atmosphere after the container is opened and when filling etc?

I wonder if the fluid could be run through a vacuum chamber to "boil" the water vapour off? May need to be warmer than room temperature to work though - just a random thought.

The brake system isn't actually closed - even when you put the lid on the reservoir, it's not perfectly sealed, and water starts to get into the system.

The same goes for open bottles of brake fluid - they gradually absorb water into the fluid as well. Always use fresh (sealed) fluid, once the seal inside the lid is broken, the brake fluid is starting to absorb moisture.

[amunra]

[QUOTE=Ozsko;1338007][QUOTE=amunra;1337974]

I'm not going to tell you how to do it you need someone in the car to demonstrate how it is done. None of the above tells me you know the proper technique for driving very hard on the track. Personally I find driving a street car on the track to be unrewarding at any level because a street car is a boat on the track.

oh im sorry my mate. how many bathurst races have you won again?

i think it might be called brake modulation.. u press and ease on the release as you enter the turn.. but you sound like the expert please let us know... it would really be foolish to think that guys with actual track experiences with certain equipment might actually know waht they are talking about .... or brake specialists know anything about how pads and calipers perform on the track.. couldnt be a possibility on VW WATERCOOLED FORUM feat lucas_GTI and OSZKO

Maybe we need to ask Manaz i think hes in a position to make give us a lesson on how to modulate your braking around a track or what the best techniques are.

Definately didnt expect it to be same as pottering around the city in traffic ... but you let me know OSZKO you sound like you know the best

[Lucas_R]

how many bathurst races have you won again?

As many as you have no doubt. How do the Kinforests perform on the track by the way?

[Manaz]

How do the Kinforests perform on the track by the way?

Like almost all regular road tyres I imagine - they'll get too warm too quickly and will lose all grip and will shed rubber like it's going out of fashion. Even "sporty" tyres like RE003s don't do well on the track. I've done track days on road tyres, you really have to spend time getting them up to temp slowly (1-2 warm-up laps), then a hot lap, then immediate cool-down laps. Otherwise not only does performance at the track suffer, but lifespan suffers if you get significant heat cycles into them.

Road-legal R-Comps are MUCH better, and can be surprisingly affordable, as can second hand tyres from places like the AE86 series drivers who turn their tyres over regularly, and you can easily get a good couple of track days out of tyres from them). I've found it's best to have separate track and road wheel/tyre combos - carry the track wheels/tyres to the track, change them when you get there, change off them back to the road set when you finish - also handy if something goes wrong and you damage a wheel/tyre to have a set to drive home on...

EDIT by Manaz: Cut out some extraneous stuff, added some more detail.

[Manaz]

i think it might be called brake modulation.. u press and ease on the release as you enter the turn..

Depends entirely on the pads. Like tyres (as per my previous post), regular road pads get too hot too quickly and the binding agents in the pad break down and they stop gripping and you just chew the **** out of them (even worse on slotted rotors). The "solution" is pads designed for higher temperatures - but the compromise then is that such pads generally don't perform well when cold - something to be aware of on the drive to/from the circuit (if that's how you get your car to/from the circuit - I'd love to be able to trailer the car I use for track days, but I'm not set up for that).

Quite a few people actually change pads before and after track sessions. Even then, you need to spend 2-3 laps getting the pads up to temp if you do that (and if you're running r-comp or better tyres, getting them up to temp as well).

Good pads chew rotors too though - it's one of the reasons many people with dedicated track cars (or road cars that they track regularly) run two-piece rotors - replacement rings are generally cheaper than full rotors (and you get other benefits such as lower unsprung mass, less heat transfer into wheel hubs, etc). Be careful doing track days on drilled rotors - drilling doesn't actually help with much (slotted rotors are better in terms of degassing), and drilled spots are weak spots for cracking (more likely if you're doing track days as the heat cycles are more extreme).

[nermal]

Sounds excellent, really looking forward to seeing some pictures when it's done.

The 380mm stage 3 brakes fit like a glove!



The 20" Rosario wheels provide plenty of clearance, though you'd probably want to measure/check before going with the 345/355mm options (the 345mm Stage 2 Racingline template didn't fit).



Harding Performance did me a great deal on some ex-demo stock (from Golf GTI with ~1,500kms) - they even kindly agreed to take some photos during the install for me =)






So far, they are driving great. No rattles or squeaks, very smooth and responsive braking. They don't have wear sensors, so this has been disabled. I haven't tested them properly yet as I had the old calipers/rotors in the back - but will report back once I do.

It seems I now have some "unpainted golf R" brakes to sell.

[ope126]

Looks great mate!!!

[Manaz]

Looks great mate!!!

I concur!

[amunra]

The 380mm stage 3 brakes fit like a glove!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54257[/ATTACH]

The 20" Rosario wheels provide plenty of clearance, though you'd probably want to measure/check before going with the 345/355mm options (the 345mm Stage 2 Racingline template didn't fit).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54258[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]54256[/ATTACH]

Harding Performance did me a great deal on some ex-demo stock (from Golf GTI with ~1,500kms) - they even kindly agreed to take some photos during the install for me =)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54259[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54260[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54261[/ATTACH]


So far, they are driving great. No rattles or squeaks, very smooth and responsive braking. They don't have wear sensors, so this has been disabled. I haven't tested them properly yet as I had the old calipers/rotors in the back - but will report back once I do.

It seems I now have some "unpainted golf R" brakes to sell.

how much?

[nermal]

how much?

I'd rather not disclose as it was a one-off deal (ex-demo stock) - HP may be willing to tell you if you contact them directly.

I was looking at $1,500 for standard OEM replacements anyway and I now have the old calipers etc to sell - which also helps the equation a bit.

[petemac110]

So far, they are driving great. No rattles or squeaks, very smooth and responsive braking. They don't have wear sensors, so this has been disabled. I haven't tested them properly yet as I had the old calipers/rotors in the back - but will report back once I do.

Lovely!

It reminds me of the approach we used to take back in my old Subaru days. Throwing more aggressive pads on the stock calipers (with stock or upgraded rotors) felt great regarding bite and outright performance, but you were always very much aware that you were running aftermarket performance pads, no matter which pad compound you chose. Each had specific trade-offs re: cold performance, noise, wear, dust etc.

Going to larger 4 pot alloy STI Brembo calipers and rotors (or sometimes the 2 pot Liberty GT calipers which were also larger than stock) always felt so much nicer under all conditions - whether on the street or on the track - and due to the additional heatsink capacity of the big rotors and the additional braking torque that the larger setup offered, you could often get away with running less aggressive compounds which just felt nicer on a day-to-day basis.

Yep, it's more expensive, but well worth it if you can afford it IMHO.

[amunra]

I'd rather not disclose as it was a one-off deal (ex-demo stock) - HP may be willing to tell you if you contact them directly.

I was looking at $1,500 for standard OEM replacements anyway and I now have the old calipers etc to sell - which also helps the equation a bit.

ballpark?

[Vedi]

The 380mm stage 3 brakes fit like a glove!

New calipers look on point, great choice.

[nermal]

Lovely!

It reminds me of the approach we used to take back in my old Subaru days. Throwing more aggressive pads on the stock calipers (with stock or upgraded rotors) felt great regarding bite and outright performance, but you were always very much aware that you were running aftermarket performance pads, no matter which pad compound you chose. Each had specific trade-offs re: cold performance, noise, wear, dust etc.

Going to larger 4 pot alloy STI Brembo calipers and rotors (or sometimes the 2 pot Liberty GT calipers which were also larger than stock) always felt so much nicer under all conditions - whether on the street or on the track - and due to the additional heatsink capacity of the big rotors and the additional braking torque that the larger setup offered, you could often get away with running less aggressive compounds which just felt nicer on a day-to-day basis.

Yep, it's more expensive, but well worth it if you can afford it IMHO.

Yeah, I'm really surprised how much it changes the feel and handling of the car - wasn't expecting that.

I took it for a drive just before and it stops much quicker, without realizing it. It's pulling up earlier than it normally would, without the feeling of hard braking. I gave them a bit of a push (only part way) and it came up to a smooth stop very quickly - gotta be careful no-one runs up the back of me now!

The lack of squealing and rattling from the old poorly-fitted pads may also be contributing a little to the psychology - no more cringing while driving over road divets and ruts =D

I expected more grab and roughness (ie. beast mode), but it's actually a lot more refined. Quiet, smooth and gives me more confidence to drive the car harder. Can hit corners a bit faster too (lighter tap going into a faster corner)... can't really do much on the street though, and with some traffic around.

I'm really happy with them - money well spent IMHO.

[amunra]

Yeah, I'm really surprised how much it changes the feel and handling of the car - wasn't expecting that.

I took it for a drive just before and it stops much quicker, without realizing it. It's pulling up earlier than it normally would, without the feeling of hard braking. I gave them a bit of a push (only part way) and it came up to a smooth stop very quickly - gotta be careful no-one runs up the back of me now!

The lack of squealing and rattling from the old poorly-fitted pads may also be contributing a little to the psychology - no more cringing while driving over road divets and ruts =D

I expected more grab and roughness (ie. beast mode), but it's actually a lot more refined. Quiet, smooth and gives me more confidence to drive the car harder. Can hit corners a bit faster too (lighter tap going into a faster corner)... can't really do much on the street though, and with some traffic around.

I'm really happy with them - money well spent IMHO.

Ur just about ready for the track then.. u going?