Arteon Brake upgrade

[nermal]

if ur getting stage 2 calipers then u most definately dont need stage 3 calipers ..

Unfortunately, the VWR stage 2 calipers don't fit our 20" wheels (I was originally considering these). The spokes have a concave shape, but don't have the clearance for the wider calipers near the hub for 345mm rotors - so, ironically the 380mm fit (just), but the 345mm don't.

The manufacturer provides printable templates that you can use to measure brake fit/clearance against the wheel. I'll find out next week for sure.

[amunra]

Unfortunately, the VWR stage 2 calipers don't fit our 20" wheels (I was originally considering these). The spokes have a concave shape, but don't have the clearance for the wider calipers near the hub for 345mm rotors - so, ironically the 380mm fit (just), but the 345mm don't.

The manufacturer provides printable templates that you can use to measure brake fit/clearance against the wheel. I'll find out next week for sure.

so what stage 2 kit calipers did u order from the uk?

[nermal]

so what stage 2 kit calipers did u order from the uk?

Sorry for the confusion, I'm waiting on Stage 2 tuning parts from the UK (ceramic-coated downpipe, intercooler, hoses etc).

[amunra]

Sorry for the confusion, I'm waiting on Stage 2 tuning parts from the UK (ceramic-coated downpipe, intercooler, hoses etc).

fair enough.. after speaking to a brakes specialist i think the conclusion was that big brake is only needed if ur doing extended circuit work (lap on lap .. chasing times)... otherwise discs and pads go well if "stopping power" is all ur after.

after checking out the prices of the dba xp orange seems like they have gone up quite a bit since i bought mine... nearly $100 a set... i think at the $200+ range you can get pads with even higher heat tolerance for extended circuit (if thats what anyone really needs).

otherwise orange is good for street, spirited / performance.

i was advised the rs3 brake upgrade isnt even that great over the golf r brakes for circuit work and not really worth doing.

hope that gives u guys something to consider before dropping 4 - 6k+ on big brakes and install.

[Ozsko]

I doubt any upgrade will be worth it at all even on a circuit. As someone with a bit of experience with circuit racing unless the driver is coached in how to brake on a circuit they can't do it because the whole thing is counter intuitive.

[ope126]

interesting. thought it was the same gear as the golf r... thats a shame for arteon drivers if VW are cheaping out a bit.

audi TTS brakes are like golf r brakes but lighter...... if u can find them..

otherwise i think 2nd hand 4pots (porsche audi) off a wreck are probably the best buy if ur gonna replace the calipers... otherwise just replace the disc and pads like (dba4000 and dba xp) even on a single pot should be good with stage 1 - 3 (depending on what ur doing regularly).

why ur considering stage 3 brake kit on a stage 1 car..... only if ur going to do laps and laps at a circuit and regularly... u might regret ur purchase very quickly.



P.S after doing some reading online they are the same brake calipers as golf r.. open to being corrected if someone can prove that.

@amunra - it appears you have corrected yourself and yes, to confirm the Golf R / Superb 206TSI 4x4 / Passat 206TSI R-Line / AUDI S3 / Tiguan 162TSI all run identical (Front) 340x30mm vented rotors with the same sized single piston calipers, however the Golf R / AUDI S3 have a cover plate on the caliper, purely a decorative plate.

And no, the AUDI TTRS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper.

The new MK8 Golf R has 357x34mm rotors with newly designed 2 piston calipers.

I personally run the following on my ŠKODA Superb 206TSI 4x4:
- Clubsport S (semi 2 piece drilled) front rotors - Part No. 5Q061301C
- Clubsport S front pads - Part No. 5Q0698151L

This combination is excellent, a vast improvement over standard.

[amunra]

[QUOTE=ope126;1337952]

And no, the AUDI TTRS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper. [QUOTE]

thats great, i didnt say ttrs.. i said TTS.. they ARE like golf r brakes but lighter.

[ope126]

[QUOTE=amunra;1337954][QUOTE=ope126;1337952]

And no, the AUDI TTRS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper.

thats great, i didnt say ttrs.. i said TTS.. they ARE like golf r brakes but lighter.

Woops mate, my bad!!!
I added an "R", what I meant to say was AUDI TTS (as you clearly said...)

And no, the AUDI TTS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper.
Please refer to the following link; Everything You Need to Know about the TTS Front Brake Upgrade for Mk7s - Articles - Deutsche Auto Parts

[amunra]

[QUOTE=ope126;1337955][QUOTE=amunra;1337954]

And no, the AUDI TTRS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper.

Woops mate, my bad!!!
I added an "R", what I meant to say was AUDI TTS (as you clearly said...)

And no, the AUDI TTS front calipers are NOT like Golf R Calipers, they are a 4 piston caliper.
Please refer to the following link; Everything You Need to Know about the TTS Front Brake Upgrade for Mk7s - Articles - Deutsche Auto Parts

ok mate.. they are the same size and basically same caliper off the same family of cars... only 4 pot and lighter (variation? sort of like a golf r and golf gti)... u could say they are a slightly "Better" or track oriented version of the golf r brakes if you really want to get into the nitty gritty.. although to the layman or woolworths andretti im sure they would probably be the same.

my point was... its just another option for anyone out there for anyone who might be interested and comes across a pair without spending up to get big brakes.

i see u boys are just chomping at the bit to have another Its not this and Its not that Debate... just lay off it champ that was done 2 weeks ago.

[amunra]

for anyone interested. a link to a user review / feedback on TTS calipers (4 piston , lighter) for track use .

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/tt-mk3-discussion-207/tts-brakes-short-story-2969145/

what it shows is that most of these oem mqb brakes (even up to rs3 4 pot) are not that great on extended / circuit use.. whether they are 1 or 4 pot...

the bite and durability / heat tolerance might be better with upgraded pads and discs (definately on street and spirited) but it wont be help much more in the long run after beating on the brakes at a circuit with high temps..


just something to think about for anyone wanting to 'Upgrade' their brakes.. it might not really give you much cost / benefit for what your doing over uprated discs and pads.

[Ozsko]

[QUOTE=amunra;1337958][QUOTE=ope126;1337955]

i see u boys are just chomping at the bit to have another Its not this and Its not that Debate... just lay off it champ that was done 2 weeks ago.

Nothing wrong with upgrading for track work IF you know how to apply the upgrades properly when approaching the first corner. The glib idea it is an easy fix for track work is not correct as using the brakes as you would on the street is the wrong way to go about braking on the track for maximum return on your investment.

[amunra]

[QUOTE=Ozsko;1337973][QUOTE=amunra;1337958]

Nothing wrong with upgrading for track work IF you know how to apply the upgrades properly when approaching the first corner. The glib idea it is an easy fix for track work is not correct as using the brakes as you would on the street is the wrong way to go about braking on the track for maximum return on your investment.

very true. my point exactly is if ur doing track work and think ur gonna need BBK go ahead.. might be a worthwhile investment in your enjoyment / day if its what u like doing.. everyone knows track work is expensive business to do properly.. unfortunately going up 1/2 step to TTS or 1 step to TTRS really isnt gonna add much on the daily driving level for the Time / Money spent... and on a circuit level seems like a mirage upgrade.... doesnt do what u think over the oem caliper.... maybe only for a small period of time before it fails just the same.


did the guys TTS pads fail on the track coz that guy doesnt know how to drive and ate them on the 1st corner ??.. u cant be 100% sure... i would put most of the guys on this forum in that basket of going to eat their pads on the 1st or 2nd corner ..

To me theres the highest chance they failed after a session of hard driving and hard braking and lowest chance he ate them on the 1st corner.. To put it simply... the TTS caliper with OEM pads and discs are not fit for proper track use... end of story

.. would they have faired better with uprated pads and discs on in the same track driving conditions. who knows

.. they may not have gone down to the backing plate but could be close to changing out.... they are the same/similar size as GOLF R brakes just 4 pot... i really doubt a little bit of spread out friction over the same small area with 4 pot over 1 pot is going to make any difference when ur pads are already running at 700+' C and getting ragged on every corner... the compounds simply will disintegrate.. especially with the weight in something like a golf R / arteon / passat ... they are going to burn up very quickly trying to get that thing to slowly down at high speeds at every corner, Thus why u need to buy a proper racing BBK caliper with larger pads, larger rotors for a larger surface area with super high temp compounds and high temp fluid to spread the friction which keep the temps down and hold up thru the abuse over and over again..

Is this 4 - 6K BBK setup needed for a sometimes drag-strip car? that does 1 pull and stops, sits around, cools down.. find out by upgrading the OEM discs and pads and see how they stop after a few pulls... most important factor will most likely be down to the pad compound durability rather than size of the caliper...

Will you need a racing BBK to take ur 500+HP MQB around a track safely and confidently after a few laps ...

Probably

[Manaz]

just something to think about for anyone wanting to 'Upgrade' their brakes.. it might not really give you much cost / benefit for what your doing over uprated discs and pads.

I concur. Further to that, in some cases, the best upgrade for the first few track days is fresh (and good - DOT 4 or DOT 5.1, *NOT* DOT5, that's different stuff entirely!) brake fluid. Given that brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and water has a significantly lower boiling point that brake fluid (170ºC to 270ºC for DOT4, 180ºC to 260ºC+ for DOT 5.1), as water gets into the fluid, it boils early and steam compresses easily, NOT something you want in your brake lines (not to mention potential rust damage when water sits in cast iron calipers over time as well).

On my track car (not a VW, but that's not relevant) we change the brake fluid every 2-3 track days or 6 months, whichever comes first. There's a good reason we do that.

[nermal]

I concur. Further to that, in some cases, the best upgrade for the first few track days is fresh (and good - DOT 4 or DOT 5.1, *NOT* DOT5, that's different stuff entirely!) brake fluid. Given that brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and water has a significantly lower boiling point that brake fluid (170ºC to 270ºC for DOT4, 180ºC to 260ºC+ for DOT 5.1), as water gets into the fluid, it boils early and steam compresses easily, NOT something you want in your brake lines (not to mention potential rust damage when water sits in cast iron calipers over time as well).

On my track car (not a VW, but that's not relevant) we change the brake fluid every 2-3 track days or 6 months, whichever comes first. There's a good reason we do that.

That's really interesting. Does the water vapour come from the atmosphere after the container is opened and when filling etc?

I wonder if the fluid could be run through a vacuum chamber to "boil" the water vapour off? May need to be warmer than room temperature to work though - just a random thought.

[Ozsko]

[QUOTE=amunra;1337974][QUOTE=Ozsko;1337973]

very true. my point exactly is if ur doing track work and think ur gonna need BBK go ahead.. might be a worthwhile investment in your enjoyment / day if its what u like doing.. everyone knows track work is expensive business to do properly.. unfortunately going up 1/2 step to TTS or 1 step to TTRS really isnt gonna add much on the daily driving level for the Time / Money spent... and on a circuit level seems like a mirage upgrade.... doesnt do what u think over the oem caliper.... maybe only for a small period of time before it fails just the same.


did the guys TTS pads fail on the track coz that guy doesnt know how to drive and ate them on the 1st corner ??.. u cant be 100% sure... i would put most of the guys on this forum in that basket of going to eat their pads on the 1st or 2nd corner ..

To me theres the highest chance they failed after a session of hard driving and hard braking and lowest chance he ate them on the 1st corner.. To put it simply... the TTS caliper with OEM pads and discs are not fit for proper track use... end of story

.. would they have faired better with uprated pads and discs on in the same track driving conditions. who knows

.. they may not have gone down to the backing plate but could be close to changing out.... they are the same/similar size as GOLF R brakes just 4 pot... i really doubt a little bit of spread out friction over the same small area with 4 pot over 1 pot is going to make any difference when ur pads are already running at 700+' C and getting ragged on every corner... the compounds simply will disintegrate.. especially with the weight in something like a golf R / arteon / passat ... they are going to burn up very quickly trying to get that thing to slowly down at high speeds at every corner, Thus why u need to buy a proper racing BBK caliper with larger pads, larger rotors for a larger surface area with super high temp compounds and high temp fluid to spread the friction which keep the temps down and hold up thru the abuse over and over again..

Is this 4 - 6K BBK setup needed for a sometimes drag-strip car? that does 1 pull and stops, sits around, cools down.. find out by upgrading the OEM discs and pads and see how they stop after a few pulls... most important factor will most likely be down to the pad compound durability rather than size of the caliper...

Will you need a racing BBK to take ur 500+HP MQB around a track safely and confidently after a few laps ...

Probably

I'm not going to tell you how to do it you need someone in the car to demonstrate how it is done. None of the above tells me you know the proper technique for driving very hard on the track. Personally I find driving a street car on the track to be unrewarding at any level because a street car is a boat on the track.