help:tiguan variant can't decide

[NZTiguan]

Interesting stuff over those last few posts there Sharkie . Glad someone has cleared it up.

I just hope that Will Hagen(?) is reading this because I'm sick and tired of hearing him carry on about how much more drivable diesels are because of their huge torque.

All that was "cleared up" is that petrol engines are generally faster to accelerate but even that's due to the way they're built, after all the le-mans winners nowadays are diesels !!

As far as "more drivable" goes I'd agree with anybody who said a diesel IS because it's loping along not needing all the "revs and rush", but I haven't seen anybody ever claim they'd do a better standing quarter or whatever.

"Horses for courses" and for many people (as evidenced by the sales) the diesel does have considerable advantages over the petrol and "drivability" and economy are just two of them.

Cheers

[Sharkie]

not needing all the "revs and rush" ....

"Horses for courses" and for many people (as evidenced by the sales) the diesel does have considerable advantages over the petrol and "drivability" and economy are just two of them.

Cheers

Still sticking to the brain washed mantra .......

in fact the TDIs are ALL about the rush ....

Driving a turbo diesel (any one) works as follows ....

lag
short boost peak
no power
change gear
lag
short boost peak
no power
change gear
etc
etc
etc
etc

It is not at all "driveable" in the same sense that a normally aspirated car or especially a turbo petrol car is.

The ploy that the manufacturers use to disguise this with is either a good auto gbox (and the VW tiptronic is brilliant and tuned specifically to hide the engine's shortcomings) or short manual ratios. It is this very short spike in torque that makes it feel quick where in fact it is actually the exact opposite. And it is only a short spike, like a heartbeat, there is no broad torque curve to lope along with .....

At 80km/h in 4th (which is a sensible "normal" driving speed) a NA RAV4 or CRV will outpace a TDI Tig quite easily. Which is safer or better or MORE "driveable" ?

EDIT:

Here is a direct quote from the Wheels test on the Tiguan TDI ...... "Like all diesels, the TDI gets on the case in short, sharp bursts. Wham-bam and gimme another gear. Thankfully, there’s six of ’em and the slick gearshift ensures they’re as easy to run through as you could wish."......

[clip]

I test drove both the manual and auto diesel Tigs. The manual was awful whereas (as Sharkie has pointed out) the auto managed it much better. I've also driven a chipped Golf TDI with DSG and it was even better. But, other than fuel consumption, the "driveability" factor of any of them still wasn't up to a 125 TSI - otherwise I just might have bought one.

[Transporter]

I test drove both the manual and auto diesel Tigs. The manual was awful whereas (as Sharkie has pointed out) the auto managed it much better. I've also driven a chipped Golf TDI with DSG and it was even better. But, other than fuel consumption, the "driveability" factor of any of them still wasn't up to a 125 TSI - otherwise I just might have bought one.

What is your fuel economy, mate? I'm a diesel man but listening you guys with 125TSI I have to take the petrol Tig for test drive before I commit to buy.

[NZTiguan]

Sharkie I think it's the definition of "driving" rather than "drivability" that we differ on as I do (differ) with vehicle testers. Once again they're worried about 0 to 60 times, standing quarter times etc as you are (which is perfectly OK) BUT it's NOT what the average person buying a Tiguan is interested in. They, like me, cruise up to 110 or 120 kph without ever going over about 2200 rpm, right in the diesel's power band, and then cruise all day (or whatever) up hill and down, still in the diesel's power band. We really aren't that interested in reaching terminal velocity in under 6 seconds or whatever. We also like the fact that we can chuck a caravan on the back and the diesel hardly knows it's there, and we love the fact that we stop far less often for fuel and that (here in NZ) that fuel is way cheaper than petrol. That's why we buy diesels and that's why they're better for the job WE want them for than a high revving, high horsepower, relatively low torque (down low where it counts for us) turbo petrol engine. As I said, horses for courses and I KNOW what's better for me and those like me, while I fully appreciate that the petrol engine is better for you and the purposes and driving style you have. So, I think we're both right !! you for your purpose and me for mine.

When I was "young" I had an mg midget that was "blue printed", ported and polished, had a "lotus grind" cam, double valve springs, oversized valves and twin 1.75 SUs (all hand done by me), and was capable (electrically timed) of 112 mph which wasn't bad for those days and 1100 ccs (came out of the factory capable of 93 mph), so I'm not an old fuddy duddy who doesn't appreciate those who want to tweak their vehicles and drive them in a fashion I used to drive (by the way, yes I did race my mg on track days, plus hill-climbs etc in the mg car club). As I say, horses for courses !!

Cheers

[Transporter]

Nicely said Derek, It reminded me the movie The Last Indian. Anyway VW sells more diesels than petrol powered cars and downsizing, not just from 6 cylinders to 4 cylinders but lowering the cubic capacity of the engines is the trend in automotive world today.

[clip]

What is your fuel economy, mate?

Before I do that, it's only fair to point out my "normal/average" driving routine. 5 days a week I travel 60k's a day. 10k's of that is 100k/h highway, rest is 50/60k suburban with a few sets of lights - BUT this is not Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne congestion. It's stop start with lights etc, but that's all. Weekend driving is worse with more traffic. Do about another 40k's in that. Also need to consider that I generally drive quietly most of the time, but then I don't hesitate to use the available power when the need arises. So,

Pre and post remap weekly averages (using the car's rubbery figures):

Pre: 9.1
Post: 9.8

Post remap trip figures calculated from fuel use and kilometres (not the car's figures). Return trip from Sunshine Coast to Moree via Brisbane, Towoomba, Goondawindi, Moree, Coffs Harbour, Byron Bay, Brisbane:
Averaged 8.9

Post remap trip to Sydney including weeks driving around northern beaches area:
Averaged 9.7

If I check the car's reading when just driving around town on the weekend, the worse I've seen is 10.8

Hope this helps.

[Transporter]

Thanks Clip, these are really good fuel consumption results, considering the weight of the Tig and you probably don't drive always for the fuel economy

[Sharkie]

Sharkie I think it's the definition of "driving" rather than "drivability" that we differ on as I do (differ) with vehicle testers. Once again they're worried about 0 to 60 times, standing quarter times etc as you are (which is perfectly OK) BUT it's NOT what the average person buying a Tiguan is interested in. They, like me, cruise up to 110 or 120 kph without ever going over about 2200 rpm, right in the diesel's power band, and then cruise all day (or whatever) up hill and down, still in the diesel's power band. We really aren't that interested in reaching terminal velocity in under 6 seconds or whatever. We also like the fact that we can chuck a caravan on the back and the diesel hardly knows it's there, and we love the fact that we stop far less often for fuel and that (here in NZ) that fuel is way cheaper than petrol. That's why we buy diesels and that's why they're better for the job WE want them for than a high revving, high horsepower, relatively low torque (down low where it counts for us) turbo petrol engine. As I said, horses for courses and I KNOW what's better for me and those like me, while I fully appreciate that the petrol engine is better for you and the purposes and driving style you have. So, I think we're both right !! you for your purpose and me for mine.



Cheers

Derek, fully agree that the petrol and diesel Tigs cater to 2 different markets, which is exactly what VW intended, and in general I quite like a diesel. As said before I have a TD DualCab 4x4 which gets a lot of weekend use. A TDI has a rightful place in the market.

BUT a TDI is NOT a performance vehicle and whenever somebody asks about performance and a recommendation and we give one that does not include the TDI we get this mantra about how much torque and "grunt" the TDI has. Which on the established facts is clearly wrong. Refer to the earlier posts that point to the performance deficiencies and the whole torque misconception. The modern petrol turbo has no less torque than the diesel and in fact delivers it over a much broader powerband than the diesel. And its economy is excellent as well though less impressive than the diesel.

So when somebody asks for recommendation and we can determine that some performance is required the TDI will not and in fact should not feature as an option. If the preference is clearly for economy then the TDI will be prominent in my recommendation.

And everytime we get a return comment that the TDI has so much more "grunt" I'll just dredge up the actual facts and figures that proves otherwise.

Its just like the auto option on the Tigs. My preference is for a manual but I'd happily recomend the Tiptronic to anybody. It is a great gbox in all respects, in fact I prefer it over a DSG. But if you want optimal performance from a Tig buy the manual.

As to fuel consumption I'm still on my 2nd tank so have no figures to give up that makes any sense.

[NZTiguan]

For what it's worth we got 6.6l/100k (43mpg imp) on a long trip here (about 1700 k). That was mainly open road running BUT up and down the South Island of NZ including mountain crossings to and from the West Coast. I was VERY impressed with that, for comparison we averaged 9.3l/100k on the same trip with our Kia Sorento diesel a few years back. Some of the GB guys have been getting 50mpg and more on careful motorway running.

Cheers

[Sharkie]

Off topic slightly, but on our trip to Thredbo 2 weeks ago on a 3200km round trip the RAV4 returned 8.7l/100km average........ and I drove Canberra to Brisbane (1200km) in 12 hours so I wasn't wasting time either .......

Next year I'll take the Tig and hope to better that figure.

Why did I not take the Tig? Could only fit 2/3rds of what went into the Rav into the Tig. I will have to get a rack & roofpod before next year's trip to fit all I need. But that will probably mess up the fuel figures

[team_v]

Off topic slightly, but on our trip to Thredbo 2 weeks ago on a 3200km round trip the RAV4 returned 8.7l/100km average........ and I drove Canberra to Brisbane (1200km) in 12 hours so I wasn't wasting time either .......

Next year I'll take the Tig and hope to better that figure.

Why did I not take the Tig? Could only fit 2/3rds of what went into the Rav into the Tig. I will have to get a rack & roofpod before next year's trip to fit all I need. But that will probably mess up the fuel figures

Just slip the seats forward and fold the rears down and it should fit fine


I think a lot of people get stuck in the old ways that petrol was weak and diesels were strong as an ox.

With current technology petrol engines actually have a more elongated and in some cases higher torque curve than the diesel variants.

For me it comes down to purely fuel economy/maybe fuel availability (DIESEL) vs performance (PETROL)

Unfortunately, the DPF-OFF by custom code only works for FWD systems and only increases the torque levels, not the spread so it looks to remain this way.

[Sharkie]

Just slip the seats forward and fold the rears down and it should fit fine

Afraid not, 2 adults and 3 kids mean no sliding of seats or fold down ....

[Sharkie]

Also remember that anybody who "upgrades" their tyres to a larger size will see an increase in fuel consumption. (Both TDI & TSI)

Larger tyres = increased rolling resistance = more fuel used.

Optimal fuel consumption to be achieved on the 16" 215s I'm afraid.

A well run in engine with a remap (again both TDI & TSI) will return better fuel consumption in steady cruising.

[team_v]

Afraid not, 2 adults and 3 kids mean no sliding of seats or fold down ....

Just ship the kiddies off to the grandparents/ autie & uncle's place

P.S. that was just a joke.

The Tig does have its shortcoming, mainly in the interior space, but it can't be everything at an entry level mini SUV.

It will be interesting to see howthe BMW X1 and Audi Q3 stack up in comparison.