Have I received Lemon Tiguan 132T or again DSG old problems continue with Volkswagen?

[Guest001]

Turn the radio up and stop worrying I had a Hillman Avenger once that had more whirs, knocks and rattles than you could count and it was the best little car I ever owned. Sold it to a wrecker in the end and they drove it for months as the shop hack it went so well.

There is such a thing as worrying too much. All mechanical things have noises.

[cameleon72]

Hi sorry to all was overseas didn't have time to reply, this is continue from other thread on request from user Justice we will continue here discussion
Justice is right to be upset as recording audio on mobile phone with poor audio microphone is just not enough even I cant hear those noise from audio but having same issue I tottaly understand why he is upset, to catch all this clunking clicking rattle noise as human ears works differently ,you will need some professional audio recording device with multiply microphone inputs to clearly record this issue and isolate external motor and driving noises coming and mixing inside of cabin , is different driving live in car .

By my long testing driving all tiguan 2 models proven that all 4wd new Tiguan 2 are affected regardless 132tsi or 162tsi (higline and rline) some have more and some less but noise is there and this is issue and not acceptable for new car costing 50k - 60k , only 1.4 tsi 2wd are not 100% affected with this problem noise less and smoothness perfect! So all pointing problem is somewhere from Automatic transmission to rear deferential . Put car in eco mode (best way to test as engine has less rpm ) dont use Eco in indvidual menu but directly as Eco directly use costing function ( but Eco in individual menu not using it )which more activate and deactivate clutches ,close the windows sunroof,switch off radio fan, drive alone in quiet street nigh time after 12 when no traffic so you can isolate all external noise and concentrate to inside car noise, find street with lots of humps and roundabout where you need to constantly slow down and drive slowly up to 40km ,once you notice this noise you will always after hear it even during day time and in louder environment , if you dont notice rattle clicking noise than sorry but problem is with hearing( no offence to anyone) or you have 100 % perfect tiguan which i doubt after i tested at least 10 4wd new tiguans and all have issue noted above, some have more and some less noise
Kind Regards

[spacemannz]

I too can hear something ‘different’ in my DSG and having an industrial machinery background, I tend to tune into and fixate on certain sounds. I’m undecided if it is an issue or just characteristics of the DSG. It’s new tech to me. I’m not worried right now - keep calm and put my foot down. I committed to buy my first VW knowing the DSG, customer service and Dieselgate issues. But judging by the volume of vehicles they sell, it can’t be that bad.

A couple of bits of advice:
1. Perhaps you’ll get a clearer recording if you have your window open and drive in a tunnel or near concrete median barrier. Pick a quiet time of day to minimise other traffic noise.
2. Don’t forget to thank the 170 people who took the time to read your plea and listen to your recording. We’re all sympathetic to your situation and **** scared that it will happen to us too.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

[Justice]

Mate,

I also can't hear anything, does that mean that I too have a hearing impairment? Take it easy, will you.

If you're not happy with the car, keep pestering the dealer. If no joy there go to a third party ombudsman and see where that will take you. There is no need for you to take it out on the people here.

Koff I have an hearing impairment myself due to my many years of working in heavy engineering industry and to me the noise is pretty clear in the sound recording.

Maybe that is the the reason why some Tiguan owners do not report the noise because they cannot hear it on their own cars??!!

Ill leave further comments until I have a final conclusion!

[Koff]

harry do you have an hearing impairment? if you read my previous posts you will better understand the driving style as apparent in the sound recording, it is not a strange driving style but one that simulates stop/start traffic conditions. I will advise you that the noise is apparent in all gears (more noticeable at low speeds 4thgear up to 20mph) but due to engine/road noise at higher speeds/revs the noiseis less noticeable. Unfortunately I live in a busy city and there are timeswhen I can be stuck in traffic for a long time creeping along in 2nd and 3rd gearswhich makes this noise unbearable!! You may say put your music on but inresponse I will add that my wife did not pay £38,000 GBP (65,000 AUD) to tolerate such poormechanical refinement!

Mate,

I also can't hear anything, does that mean that I too have a hearing impairment? Take it easy, will you.

If you're not happy with the car, keep pestering the dealer. If no joy there go to a third party ombudsman and see where that will take you. There is no need for you to take it out on the people here.

[tigger73]

The dealer maintains it is normal operational noise which is contrary to my opinion and that of the DEKRA independent engineer, so nothing will be repaired under warranty. Unfortunately I will have to wait the intervention of the arbitrary service that is the UK motor Ombudsman before I decide on the next course of action which will be the legal route!

Dealer just wants to wipe his hands of it as he can see that he's going to get dragged into something that is going to consume a lot of time that he can't bill anyone for. So the easiest solution is to tell you that it is "normal" and hope you and your problem go away.

[Justice]

I honestly can't hearanything. All I can ascertain is that you have a strange driving style, unlessyou were stuck in traffic or drive no faster than what seemed to be 1st gear -to which I say DSGs hate rolling around in 1st. I would probably recommendrecording by your headrest, as that would be where your ears are as the driverand effectively where the sound will travel - ie. why you might hear it, andnot on the video.

harry do you have an hearing impairment? if you read my previous posts you will better understand the driving style as apparent in the sound recording, it is not a strange driving style but one that simulates stop/start traffic conditions. I will advise you that the noise is apparent in all gears (more noticeable at low speeds 4thgear up to 20mph) but due to engine/road noise at higher speeds/revs the noiseis less noticeable. Unfortunately I live in a busy city and there are timeswhen I can be stuck in traffic for a long time creeping along in 2nd and 3rd gearswhich makes this noise unbearable!! You may say put your music on but inresponse I will add that my wife did not pay £38,000 GBP (65,000 AUD) to tolerate such poormechanical refinement!

The problem is once you hear it you're very conscious of it and can hear it every time it happens. I think what happens is you become highly attuned to it and then can't "unhear" it. So even though it's not a loud noise, you're very conscious of it every time it happens.

You have hit the nail on the head!!......and it does go beyond spoiling the ownership experience!..........My wife did not part with £38,000 GBP (65,000 AUD) to endure what is very poor refinement and a possible major component failure in the making! Most owners are reporting no noise so clearly there is an issue with the drivetrain on my wifes Tiguan.

It's called OCD and the worst nightmare of any service department customer service personnel. It's a hard one as what is acceptable to one person is completely unacceptable to another. If you were driving with it for 5 minutes it probably wouldn't bother you too much but all the time I can understand with some people they would go nuts

I have to disagree on the OCD part! It is more about being vigilant, understanding the expectations of such a car and when to raise issues when you know something is not working as it should! I have to agree with you somewhat on the basis that what is acceptable to one person is not acceptable to another, this is duly because for some their driving style does not realise the noise and for others they are not enthusiasts but have company cars and use their cars as work tools. The other thing being automotive knowledge!

Actually what I'd do is stick a stethoscope mic onto some metal part of the car that is connected to whatever is rubbing and then get a clear recording.

Record that along with a video of the tacho/speedo and send that to VW. That way they can clearly see what is going on.

This type of apparatus is only available for specialist engineering applications and is not something that is readily available to the general public.

If you still get no resolution going the warranty path with the dealer, post it on their Facebook page as an absolute last resort.

The dealer maintains it is normal operational noise which is contrary to my opinion and that of the DEKRA independent engineer, so nothing will be repaired under warranty. Unfortunately I will have to wait the intervention of the arbitrary service that is the UK motor Ombudsman before I decide on the next course of action which will be the legal route!

[tigger73]

I honestly can't hear anything.

I originally thought the same but put on some headphones and listen for noises other than engine noise and clunks as the phone moves around and there definitely is a metal on metal rubbing/grinding noise in the background.

The problem is once you hear it you're very conscious of it and can hear it every time it happens. I think what happens is you become highly attuned to it and then can't "unhear" it. So even though it's not a loud noise, you're very conscious of it every time it happens.

It's called OCD and the worst nightmare of any service department customer service personnel. It's a hard one as what is acceptable to one person is completely unacceptable to another. If you were driving with it for 5 minutes it probably wouldn't bother you too much but all the time I can understand with some people they would go nuts.

I I would probably recommend recording by your headrest, as that would be where your ears are as the driver and effectively where the sound will travel - ie. why you might hear it, and not on the video.

Actually what I'd do is stick a stethoscope mic onto some metal part of the car that is connected to whatever is rubbing and then get a clear recording.

Record that along with a video of the tacho/speedo and send that to VW. That way they can clearly see what is going on.

If you still get no resolution going the warranty path with the dealer, post it on their Facebook page as an absolute last resort.



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[harry]

I honestly can't hear anything. All I can ascertain is that you have a strange driving style, unless you were stuck in traffic or drive no faster than what seemed to be 1st gear - to which I say DSGs hate rolling around in 1st. I would probably recommend recording by your headrest, as that would be where your ears are as the driver and effectively where the sound will travel - ie. why you might hear it, and not on the video.

Hopefully you'll reach a resolution with whomever if helping you.

[tigger73]

Don't be jumping on the DSG bandwagon. The DSG in the Tiguan is a completely different unit to the earlier 7 speed dry clutch ones with a lot of issues. Yours is a very robust gearbox in comparison.

I think you'll find it's rear tail shaft /transfer case as there's something moving when you decelerate just enough to give you a slight rubbing somewhere in the drive line.

The dealers have master techs but VW does also. I'd be pushing for the VW tech to look at it. The dealer is only saying it's "normal" as they don't know what to do. If it breaks they can fix it but until that happens it's an annoying characteristic.


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[Justice]

I'd suggest it's due to engine braking causing the driveline to move from being under power to transferring the power from the wheel back through the engine. The drivetrain will shift in its mounts so I'm guessing this must be just enough to cause some interference somewhere along the driveline.

The sound recording was made on perfectly flat roads at speeds up to 20 mph so there should not be sufficient or any drivetrain movement to warrant any related noise. The noise is definitely an internal one in either the gearbox, transfer box or differential.

Well I would be making 100% sure that the issue is logged with VW itself and not just with the dealer. I'd also be asking them at what point the noise is unacceptable and that they are going to rectify the issue.

The issue is logged with the dealer and VW. Unfortunately neither party will accept responsibility or confirm where the noise is emanating from!.....maybe because this is another major DSG quality concern in the making??!!

Well if it only happens when loaded up on the road I can understand and that does make diagnosis more problematic. I would be talking to VW themselves and push to get one of their master technicians to look into it if the dealer is unable to diagnose the issue.

It happens when down shifting or driving any 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear up to 20 mph. In addition a "worn bearing" sound is noticeable in all gears up to 40 mph! I have had several master technicians look at the car and test drive it and neither know what the root cause is as they have had to rely on VW technical assistance for a diagnosis. Given that the dealer believes it is a 'characteristic' begs the question why the dealer requested VW tech assistance when it is supposedly 'normal operation' noise!.......a noise that master techs would be be aware of on a daily basis???

The problem lies with the dealer not being able to diagnose the fault and not wanting to recommend a course of action only for it not to solve the problem. Then the problem transfers from VW as a warranty issue tothe dealer (the dealer carries the can if they stuff things up or mis-diagnose the issue). So push to get VWmaster tech to look at your car when he is in the area. Sounds like it's still drive-able but understand you wan this issue fixed sooner rather than later as you don't want any permanent damage being done

The dealer is adamant that the noise is a normal operational noise and a "characteristic" of the 7 speed DSG which I do not accept!
I would get better gearbox refinement from a Russian Trabant!!

I am hoping that the UK Motor Ombudsman will look at my wife's plight favourably as this noise is not acceptable given the vehicle price and history of DSG failures, not forgetting the fact that many Tiguan owners are confirming that their cars do not exhibit any noises from the drivetrain area.

[tigger73]

The grating noise does not appear under acceleration, only downshifting at speeds up to 20mph. There is also a noticeable bearing type sound when driving at constant speed (40/50mph max) in ALL gears.

I'd suggest it's due to engine braking causing the driveline to move from being under power to transferring the power from the wheel back through the engine. The drivetrain will shift in its mounts so I'm guessing this must be just enough to cause some interference somewhere along the driveline.

The noise appears to be getting worse with more use. Unfortunately the sound recording which was made via a mobile phone does not highlight the noise in a true sense.

Well I would be making 100% sure that the issue is logged with VW itself and not just with the dealer. I'd also be asking them at what point the noise is unacceptable and that they are going to rectify the issue.

Your description of metal on metal is certainly quite correct as I mentioned it was a metal grating noise. Like you say noises can appear to be originating from other sources due to sound resonance, however it is definitely a noise whose source is the drive train area which could be either the gearbox (Dealers opinion), Transfer Box (independent Engineers opinion) or possibly the differential.

The idea of putting the car on ramps to ascertain root cause would not identify the noise as it is only audible when driven. The independent engineers opinion is based purely on visual inspection and test driving the car.

Well if it only happens when loaded up on the road I can understand and that does make diagnosis more problematic. I would be talkingto VW themselves and push to get one of their master technicians to look into it if the dealer is unable to diagnose the issue.

The problem lies with the dealer not being able to diagnose the fault and not wanting to recommend a course of action only for it not to solve the problem. Then the problem transfers from VW as a warranty issue tothe dealer (the dealer carries the can if they stuff things up or mis-diagnose the issue). So push to get VWmaster tech to look at your car when he is in the area. Sounds like it's still drive-able but understand you wan this issue fixed sooner rather than later as you don't want any permanent damage being done.

[Justice]

On the 1m and 12 seconds there is a strange sound if you ask me.
My DSG does not sound like that at all. I wonde rif it's the gearbox though, it seems like the sound is also there when not hearing any acceleration. Of course it's hard for me to be sure about this as i'm not sitting in the car or driving myself.
If you keep "playing" with the gas in the same gear, do you hear this sound too? (use the flippers on the steering wheel or put it on M mode)
Maybe let someone (independent) check all "moving" parts on the bottom and wheels and check if every bolt is tied up correctly.

Does the sound get louder if your speed increases?

GEEMONEY check the recording at 5 seconds - 12 seconds, 1m.25 - 1m.40 and 2m - 2m.20 that where the noise is highlighted most IMO.

The independent engineer I appointed seems to think the noise is emanating from the transfer box and the dealer from the gearbox!

The grating noise does not appear under acceleration, only downshifting at speeds up to 20mph. There is also a noticeable bearing type sound when driving at constant speed (40/50mph max) in ALL gears. All the checks you have indicated have been carried out by the dealer and independent engineer.

The noise appears to be getting worse with more use. Unfortunately the sound recording which was made via a mobile phone does not highlight the noise in a true sense.

I've listened to the clip a number of times and to be honest I initailly couldn't hear anything other than a "normal" car. However there is definitely something that sounds like metal on metal rubbing like you're running short on brake disc and you've got caliper against rotor.

The hard thing is that noises often get transferred around a car so it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly where the noise is coming from. Did the guy that did the independent testing get the car up on a hoist to check exactly what the source of the noise was?

The sound recording was made by my wife on her iPhone so not the best and certainly not a true reproduction of the noise in real terms.

Your description of metal on metal is certainly quite correct as I mentioned it was a metal grating noise. Like you say noises can appear to be originating from other sources due to sound resonance, however it is definitely a noise whose source is the drive train area which could be either the gearbox (Dealers opinion), Transfer Box (independent Engineers opinion) or possibly the differential.

The idea of putting the car on ramps to ascertain root cause would not identify the noise as it is only audible when driven. The independent engineers opinion is based purely on visual inspection and test driving the car.

[tigger73]

I've listened to the clip a number of times and to be honest I initailly couldn't hear anything other than a "normal" car. However there is definitely something that sounds like metal on metal rubbing like you're running short on brake disc and you've got caliper against rotor.

The hard thing is that noises often get transferred around a car so it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly where the noise is coming from. Did the guy that did the independent testing get the car up on a hoist to check exactly what the source of the noise was?

[GeeMoney]

tigger73 my wife has managed to upload a video from her iphone of the DSG noise on her Tiguan via YouTube -

YouTube

I would draw your attention to the following specific times in the sound video where the noise is highly noticeable - 5 seconds, 35 seconds, 49 - 55 seconds, 1m 5 seconds - 1min 12 seconds, 1min 25 seconds - 1min 40 seconds, 1min 45 seconds - 1min 52 seconds and 2 min - 2min 20 seconds!

I would welcome your views on whether you think this DSG noise is acceptable on a £44,000.00 GBP car?

On the 1m and 12 seconds there is a strange sound if you ask me.
My DSG does not sound like that at all. I wonde rif it's the gearbox though, it seems like the sound is also there when not hearing any acceleration. Of course it's hard for me to be sure about this as i'm not sitting in the car or driving myself.
If you keep "playing" with the gas in the same gear, do you hear this sound too? (use the flippers on the steering wheel or put it on M mode)
Maybe let someone (independent) check all "moving" parts on the bottom and wheels and check if every bolt is tied up correctly.

Does the sound get louder if your speed increases?