Tuning Discussion - 132TSI / 162TSI

[Joegas]

Haha! Nahh...



Interesting. Would be great if we got more info on how.



$1990! That's a ripoff, sorry. Ridiculous price.

You don’t have to be sorry, I’m not affiliated with them nor have I got one. It’s actually a piggyback ECU, very advanced what it can actually do, even more so than a reflash, do some research. Just thought it may be an option for people that want to keep warranty.

[INASNT]

$1990 is way too much, unless they spend 4-5+ hours fine tuning all rpm setpoints across the entire range.

If they just flash it and run it on the dyno with no adjustments to the baseline flash then you are being taken for a ride.

I have spent many hours at the dyno with tuner fine tuning a car for track use and would only pay $100-$150 an hour.

[Sharkie]

No piggyback is now undetectable by VAG (VW Audi etc). Like Tigger says, they look at what the car has been doing (in the logs) and if that does not match what the car is supposed to be doing in stock form, it is flagged as tuned.

Warranty on all items that can be affected by running a tune (reflash of piggyback) is then automatically void. This is the legal position and fully enforceable by the manufacturers.

And no piggyback, including Unichip, is the equivalent of a proper ECU reflash. All piggybacks (no matter how advanced supposedly) intercepts signals being sent to the ECU and modifies them to achieve different results. With a reflash the actual programming of the ECU is adapted. Do some research.

For what its worth, Unichip has never achieved the same results as a JB for a VAG car, never mind even coming close to a proper reflash. Given your warranty being potentially useless either way, rather spend it on a proper reflash from 1 of the many reputable tuners out there.

[Sydneykid]

Accept this for just a stage 1 tune. Once you go and start upgrading components just increasing the boost and expecting everything else to just follow to suit wont work as VW as all car manufacturers have built in 'nannies' which will hold back you the car performing as it should.

Once you go down the path of upgrading a good tuner can toe the line between being a nanny and power output.

I had a R33 Skyline which made 350kw@wheels many many many many years ago, spent many hours tuning to have the car running as I wanted.

My R32 has 627 RWHP from a 3.1 litre RB, tuned by me, so I understand where you are coming from
But I have no idea what "stage" that is, for sure way past Stage 2, maybe "Stage 27" as nothing is OE except for a few castings and even they are machined.

Back to VW's, I'd have no problems with a JB4 with say an upgraded exhaust, dump, inlet and intercooler (some people would call that Stage 2). It would handle that OK within its tuning envelope. But changing turbos, camshafts, compression ratio, injectors, fuel pumps etc that gets outside the envelope. Depending on how big the changes are, it then can even get outside of the OE ECU tuning range pretty quickly and compromises are required, that's aftermarket ECU territory.

The problem I have with tuning OE ECU's is that they are time consuming and hence costly to pay someone to tune. Then we go through almost as much time again after a substantial upgrade, with first tune money gone. Whereas with a tuning box they hold their value pretty well and can be sold to fund the next step. Also a tuning box may give enough of result that no further tuning is required.

After all this is the Tiguan thread and I suspect that only a very small minority would be looking much past the performance a tuning box can provide. There are exceptions of course, a crazy hot Tiguan would be fun to catch out the unsuspecting.


Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

The ECU will record peak numbers like maximum request and actual boost. It’s pretty simple to read these values out and compare with what a stock tune does. I’m not sure if this is exactly what VW is doing but this would be one way to do it.

It's not actually that simple, for example a stock Golf GTi MK6 has boost spikes (snap closed throttle with high exhaust flow) that far exceed what a tuning box would add to the standard boost. So reading "peak boost" would be next to useless without overlaying airflow, rpm and throttle position for each instance. I've seen no evidence of the dealer software being able to do that, notwithstanding that dealer mechanics aren't trained in that level of data interpretation. No doubt if they downloaded the data from the ECU and sent it back to Germany then there is the expertise and software to handle it, but to do it for every warranty claim would be one hell of an expensive exercise. There must be millions of warranty claims a year world wide, it just wouldn't be remotely economical.


Cheers
Gary

[Joegas]

No piggyback is now undetectable by VAG (VW Audi etc). Like Tigger says, they look at what the car has been doing (in the logs) and if that does not match what the car is supposed to be doing in stock form, it is flagged as tuned.

Warranty on all items that can be affected by running a tune (reflash of piggyback) is then automatically void. This is the legal position and fully enforceable by the manufacturers.

And no piggyback, including Unichip, is the equivalent of a proper ECU reflash. All piggybacks (no matter how advanced supposedly) intercepts signals being sent to the ECU and modifies them to achieve different results. With a reflash the actual programming of the ECU is adapted. Do some research.

For what its worth, Unichip has never achieved the same results as a JB for a VAG car, never mind even coming close to a proper reflash. Given your warranty being potentially useless either way, rather spend it on a proper reflash from 1 of the many reputable tuners out there.

Thanks for the info, good to know.

[tigger73]

It's not actually that simple, for example a stock Golf GTi MK6 has boost spikes (snap closed throttle with high exhaust flow) that far exceed what a tuning box would add to the standard boost. So reading "peak boost" would be next to useless without overlaying airflow, rpm and throttle position for each instance. I've seen no evidence of the dealer software being able to do that, notwithstanding that dealer mechanics aren't trained in that level of data interpretation. No doubt if they downloaded the data from the ECU and sent it back to Germany then there is the expertise and software to handle it, but to do it for every warranty claim would be one hell of an expensive exercise. There must be millions of warranty claims a year world wide, it just wouldn't be remotely economical.

OK then they just need to log peak requested boost then

Suffice to say I’m pretty sure most tuned/piggybacked MQB platform cars will flag up as tuned (if they have been) when connected up to the dealers computer.

Moral of the story if you’re going to tune your car, put on a piggyback or modify it in some other way you have to assume that your warranty is no longer with the vehicle manufacturer and that you have to go back to the aftermarket supplier should there ever be an issue.



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[Ozsko]

I've seen no evidence of the dealer software being able to do that, notwithstanding that dealer mechanics aren't trained in that level of data interpretation.
Cheers
Gary

Have you actually spoken to anyone in a dealer who might be able to give an informed answer yea or nay? I want someone to confirm what I was told or disprove it so we can all get on with life and tuning cars. As for the dealers technicians not being able to tell how to read data how do you know that? Not having proof one way or the other does not help the debate unfortunately, has anyone here got a tuned car, had motor and transmission issues and had them settled with a warranty claim and if so how long ago.

[tigger73]

A lot of cars that are tuned will flag up on the system automatically when the car is connected up to the dealers computer.

There’s some tests that are run when the car is initially connected up and one of them is to check for any evidence of being tuned.

The dealers computers/software gets regularly updated so even if you can claim that your tuning method isn’t detectable today then there’s no guarantee that tomorrow when you take you car back that it won’t get picked up.

This is why most people that tune their cars don’t take it anywhere near a dealership service department after it has been tuned. If there is a need to perform some warranty work then you may need to return it to stock for warranty repairs and then retune it after.

This is where the tuning boxes have an advantage or have a good relationship with your tuner so they can support you if you need it.


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[Sydneykid]

Have you actually spoken to anyone in a dealer who might be able to give an informed answer yea or nay

Yes

I want someone to confirm what I was told or disprove it so we can all get on with life and tuning cars. As for the dealers technicians not being able to tell how to read data how do you know that?

I asked several plus the trainers who train them.

Not having proof one way or the other does not help the debate unfortunately, has anyone here got a tuned car, had motor and transmission issues and had them settled with a warranty claim and if so how long ago.

Conversely, has anyone here (personally, not their brother's mate's sister's boyfriend) got a tuned car, had motor and transmission issues and not had them settled with a warranty claim?

Of course VW and their dealers are going to say they can detect anything, everything, all things, it's a big disincentive to limit the number of people having their cars tuned. Conversely the tuners are going to say the opposite to preserve their business.

Cheers
Gary

[Ozsko]

Yes

I asked several plus the trainers who train them.


Conversely, has anyone here (personally, not their brother's mate's sister's boyfriend) got a tuned car, had motor and transmission issues and not had them settled with a warranty claim?

Of course VW and their dealers are going to say they can detect anything, everything, all things, it's a big disincentive to limit the number of people having their cars tuned. Conversely the tuners are going to say the opposite to preserve their business.

Cheers
Gary

So you would categorically say that tuning can't be detected by a VW dealer or technician.

[NZ_GolfR]

I had a Mk6 Golf R that had a Unitronic Stage 1+ Tune, DSG tune as well as their Intake system installed so was pretty obviously modified. I did all this just before it was 3 years old (couldn’t hold out long enough to wait until after the 3 year warranty had run out).

When it was nearly 4 years old the Haldex unit failed in the car, I can tell you it really wasn’t fun driving it with all that power only running through the front wheels!! Took the car back to the dealer (they had always serviced it for me) expecting it to be an expensive quote to repair and to my total surprise VW covered the repair. Not only was the car no longer under warranty but was obviously modified (dealer even knew about the tunes) so could have easily told VW and not covered it.

Now I am over in NZ and from what I have read on these forums your dealers seem a lot more unhelpful than ours so not sure what they would have done. Personally I would think they would be more inclined to not try and void warranties just because of a tune because then there is nothing stopping you from taking the car somewhere else to get repaired. At least if it is a warranty claim then they will get paid by VW to do the repair work. I guess it also helps to have a good relationship with the dealer, I have bought 3 cars from the same dealership now so they know if they keep me happy then I am much more likely to come back again when time to change.

Anyway that is just my experience and opinion. I haven’t tuned my 162TSI yet but every time I floor it and don’t get the thrust into the back of the seat I got with the Golf R I do think maybe I should......... would just need to decide whether to get full ECU tune or a JB4.


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[Ozsko]

Yes

I asked several plus the trainers who train them.


Conversely, has anyone here (personally, not their brother's mate's sister's boyfriend) got a tuned car, had motor and transmission issues and not had them settled with a warranty claim?

Of course VW and their dealers are going to say they can detect anything, everything, all things, it's a big disincentive to limit the number of people having their cars tuned. Conversely the tuners are going to say the opposite to preserve their business.

Cheers
Gary

And then we have this to remove the doubt....Volkswagen crack down on tuning

[Hole46]

All of this paranoia about warranty and driveline failure. I have been driving for 54 years and have owned numerous cars of many makes and models, most of them modified. I have never had any engine or transmission failure during the warranty period, only minor problems after many years of driving them. As long as the car is maintained properly and driven reasonably sanely, most should not have any problems.


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[Ozsko]

You ought to see the drive line problems that dealers see daily, or at least the dealer my son works at and all in warranty. It is a common issue along with numerous engines and turbos replaced as well. We have recently had the turbo replaced on our Golf Performance, I have no problems with a new turbo under warranty at all.