Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[Ozsko]

Great numbers but I'm still a little concerned how late these come on. Seen this with a few tuners that they really only on full boost at 4,000rpm.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42939[/ATTACH]

It certainly would be a dog to tow with.

[tigger73]

It certainly would be a dog to tow with.

And not that great as a daily either. That's my main concern with going larger turbo that you end up with a car that is hard to enjoy as a daily driver.

[h100vw]

I've seen the same sorts of curves from other tuners using the same/similar turbo.

Who knows if it's "corrected" RPM based on roller RPMs.

Same dyno as ours. It will be ratio. ie, you run the vehicle in the same gear as your intended power run. Drive up to 100kmh, then enter the revs at that speed. Variations in tyres obviously will cause some inaccuracies. Plus the rev counter isn't all that good compared to pulling the engine speed with vcds.
Honestly, that snail 460 is a ripper. I fitted the one in the GTI above. And we've done some in MK7Rs. Very responsive.Alex's 7R just received an interesting... - Underground Performance | Facebook that's a mk7r with a 460 done on UGPs dyno. Def in ratio.

[tigger73]

Same dyno as ours. It will be ratio. ie, you run the vehicle in the same gear as your intended power run. Drive up to 100kmh, then enter the revs at that speed. Variations in tyres obviously will cause some inaccuracies. Plus the rev counter isn't all that good compared to pulling the engine speed with vcds.

But should be accurate to within 50-100rpm I would guess??

Honestly, that snail 460 is a ripper. I fitted the one in the GTI above. And we've done some in MK7Rs. Very responsive.Alex's 7R just received an interesting... - Underground Performance | Facebook that's a mk7r with a 460 done on UGPs dyno. Def in ratio.

And this is where it gets tricky looking at dyno charts. 2 charts same car and the low rpm "response" looks quite different between the 2 runs:



vs.


not sure whether this is just smoothing or if it does come on this strong at ~3,500rpm

[Psych101]

But should be accurate to within 50-100rpm I would guess??



And this is where it gets tricky looking at dyno charts. 2 charts same car and the low rpm "response" looks quite different between the 2 runs:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43008[/ATTACH]

vs.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]43009[/ATTACH]

not sure whether this is just smoothing or if it does come on this strong at ~3,500rpm

Power is exactly the same on those graphs. The difference is the othe line. One is showing torque and the other is manifold pressure.

[tigger73]

Power is exactly the same on those graphs. The difference is the other line. One is showing torque and the other is manifold pressure.

Ah yes. Thankyou! Helps if you read the axes

[h100vw]

Dotted line from the right vertical axis. Kw v tq. Kw v psi

[tigger73]

Dotted line from the right vertical axis. Kw v tq. Kw v psi

All good. Torque does come on sooner but you can see that these turbos don't get onto full boost until ~4,000rpm.

It would be really interesting to see the same curves for the IS20 and IS38 standard turbos for comparison (tuned and stock).

[Psych101]

All good. Torque does come on sooner but you can see that these turbos don't get onto full boost until ~4,000rpm.

It would be really interesting to see the same curves for the IS20 and IS38 standard turbos for comparison (tuned and stock).

Yeah exactly. Although peak torque may come on later with the hybrid is20 or is38, torque may still be higher than, or similar to, stock at lower rpm anyway. It would be good to see if this is the case.

For example the snail is making 350nm below 3000rpm on the graph above which is stock torque. Would need to do an apples with apples comparison though as a dyno measurement by itself is hardly reliable.

[tigger73]

Yeah exactly. Although peak torque may come on later with the hybrid is20 or is38, torque may still be higher than, or similar to, stock at lower rpm anyway. It would be good to see if this is the case.

This was the sort of thing I was looking to find when trying to decide what path to go down but it's really not that easy to find the info. I'm not that concerned about the peak number more the shape of the curve and the rpm that things happen.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

All good. Torque does come on sooner but you can see that these turbos don't get onto full boost until ~4,000rpm.

It would be really interesting to see the same curves for the IS20 and IS38 standard turbos for comparison (tuned and stock).

I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.

If you look at the graph, regardless of the boost threshold target, you're already making 1 bar of boost by 3000rpm, at 4000rpm you're making 1.75bar of boost.

People on the internet need to stop look at when a turbo reaches "max" boost at whatever RPM, if that car only had a target boost of 1bar, then you would be saying "wow that's a responsive turbo, it comes on at 3k rpm".

It's not laggy by any means, if you're fixated by numbers then you'll never be happy. Look at that torque wide torque band, and the very linear power, another reason why tuners/dyno operators don't show RPM - you're just priming your customer's thoughts.

When I tune cars for people, I don't even bother putting the boost plot. Just power, derived torque and AFR.

[INASNT]

Tigger do you have a graph of the turbo you got as comparison?

[tigger73]

Tigger do you have a graph of the turbo you got as comparison?

All these are for the previous TTE470 with different tuners/cars as the TTE475 which I have has only just been released:

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

And now if you only look At the torque of the 10 or so graphs you've sent, the other dyno graph you so called laggy doesn't look "laggy" anymore does it?

You can make a turbo come on earlier with cam timing and low ignition timing but you sacrifice torque output.

Another reason why some tuners cannot be fked printing out RPM vs. MAP

[tigger73]

These ones come on 500-1000rpm sooner which I think should be a benefit to daily drive ability.

Obviously tuning and other hardware make a difference to the response.


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