Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Anything north of 500hp is getting into "build your engine" territory. Also I suspect if they are running a stock intercooler this will be a limiting factor at these sorts of power levels.

Yeap, it will be interesting to see how far they can push the stock engine. 600 NM is nearing twice the OEM 350 NM torque levels. In the Russian winter with very low temperatures they might be able to get away with a few glory runs, but for continuous back to back runs they will probably get heat soaked. I think google translate did say they were going to fit an Intercooler...

[tigger73]

Yeap, it will be interesting to see how far they can push the stock engine. 600 NM is nearing twice the OEM 350 NM torque levels. In the Russian winter with very low temperatures they might be able to get away with a few glory runs, but for continuous back to back runs they will probably get heat soaked. I think google translate did say they were going to fit an Intercooler...

Boost psi is the issue with stock internals. They’ll literally blow the block apart.

Regards intercoolers they will have hit max air flow through the stock intercooler. The pressure drop will be significant at higher air flows


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[INASNT]

TCU TUNE UPDATE

So I got a bit itchy knowing I had the TCU software file ready on the laptop and snuck to the garage to do the TCU software install.

Connected the battery charger/maintainer and hooked the laptop up to the power, powered on the car (not started), put in the OBD personal flasher and I selected the TCU type and the MOD file. Note, the DQ500MQB BOSCH shares the same circuit board as the TEMIC DQ380.

With a slight hesitation I pressed the “install” button and some lights flashed up on the dashboard and some beeps could be heard. The installation bar came up and said 4 minutes and I saw that the file was being written.......my heart raced then before I knew it another prompt flashed “installation complete.”

I powered off the car, disconnected the laptop and charger and was ready to go. Strapping on the Vbox, I thought “what the heck” let’s go for a run. It’s dry and reasonably cool at 18 degrees c...

Straight away you can feel the clutch grip firmer and stay longer in gears in D. I went to my usual spot, my heart pulpitating like I’ve ran a marathon and waited for my car to reach operating temperature.

Ensuring it was safe, ESC off/sport engaged, gears in S mode....I enabled launch control. “4000 RPM” dialed in - it sounded like a rally car. Releasing the brake and flooring it I was thrown back in my seat.....definitely a more forceful launch. The front wheels spun like a GTI with race gas momentarily then gripped....the gears raced by and changed with medical pin point precision.

I pulled over and looked at the vbox....

0-100km/h 4.1s

I had beaten my pre-TCU tune run of 4.2s. TVS engineering, a bloody good tune. I’ll do a full review once I’ve had to drive it for a couple of more kms in the burbs and on the freeway.

I’m sure with better tyres and less wheel spin I will be able to dip under 4s.

What a night....

Time to eat my hungry jacks and head off for bed.

Etuners did my DSG tune when I got my stage 1 done, not sure why others have not had theirs done or why APR dont offer it as yet.

Mine launches at 4000rpm and it will spin the front wheels if the road is not perfect which can sometimes make it shift to 2nd too early... Normal driving shifting is so much crisper.

[tigger73]

Etuners did my DSG tune when I got my stage 1 done, not sure why others have not had theirs done or why APR dont offer it as yet.

Mine launches at 4000rpm and it will spin the front wheels if the road is not perfect which can sometimes make it shift to 2nd too early... Normal driving shifting is so much crisper.

APR is quite a way behind in DSG tuning. They have only just started offering it but not for all DSG gearboxes.

You don’t have to purchase DSG and ECU tunes from the same tuner but they’ll often get packaged together and generally will be designed with shift points selected for the tune/turbo you’re running.


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[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Etuners did my DSG tune when I got my stage 1 done, not sure why others have not had theirs done or why APR dont offer it as yet.

Mine launches at 4000rpm and it will spin the front wheels if the road is not perfect which can sometimes make it shift to 2nd too early... Normal driving shifting is so much crisper.

I have been interested in a DSG tune for a little while now, and wanted to ensure the DSG/TCU tuner was familiar with APR ECU tunes and would complement it. When completing the order form, TVS request info about your tuner and tune, dyno/torque curves and any special requests.

I am curious as to whether increasing the LC to 4500 RPM will affect 0-100 time.....I suspect this will just induce more wheel spin....at this stage I’ll let others conduct that experiment....

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

APR is quite a way behind in DSG tuning. They have only just started offering it but not for all DSG gearboxes.

You don’t have to purchase DSG and ECU tunes from the same tuner but they’ll often get packaged together and generally will be designed with shift points selected for the tune/turbo you’re running.


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APR don’t seem to be the leaders with TCU tuning and development, TVS really stands out in that regard. I’ve read a few posts where APR TCU customers swap over to TVS TCU tunes and have got great results eg. clutch slip in 3/4 gear but after TVS tune things are smooth sailing.

Agree that whichever TCU tuner you pick, that they design for optimal shifting points which match engine power/torque.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Boost psi is the issue with stock internals. They’ll literally blow the block apart.

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That is incorrect, cylinder pressure and back pressure caused by tiny restrictors aka small turbine housing/turbines cause motors to go bang.

Remember that a motor is just a big air pump, if you don't block the exhaust side then the pistons/rods/conrods will freely spin (if that makes any sense).

I remember back in the day when people say "ahh you can't put more than 14psi into a stock SR20" well a bunch of them I've put more than 25psi into them and they're still being beaten on the track, skidpan, etc.

edit.. adding in a bit more info

So if you add boost, you're effectively adding more pressure (it's not so static in that sense) to the combustion chamber this increasing VE. However if you take out timing, then you reduce the cylinder pressure however you've still consumed more air hence you'll still make more power/torque

[tigger73]

That is incorrect, cylinder pressure and back pressure caused by tiny restrictors aka small turbine housing/turbines cause motors to go bang.

So if you add boost, you're effectively adding more pressure (it's not so static in that sense) to the combustion chamber this increasing VE. However if you take out timing, then you reduce the cylinder pressure however you've still consumed more air hence you'll still make more power/torque

OK yes technically you're correct if you pull a bunch of timing out you can add more fuel/air into the cylinder and without destroying things.
However you're only doing it because the engine hasn't been built to handle the higher pressures that you get when the timing is adjusted for maximum power/torque.

Why strap on a big turbo with a heap of lag and then pull a bunch of timing out to keep life in the engine? Now I understand why you may do things that way on a track/drag/drift car but on a daily driver hitting boost at 4,000-4,500rpm is really not a great thing for drive-ability.

You'd be better off with a smaller turbo that spools up quicker and run at lower levels of boost. But that's down to personal preference and intended use for the car.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Big turbo, more power. Also pulling timing actually brings the boost on earlier

I mainly work on track cars that all make power all the way to the redline. With our VAG cars generally you'll see all the power noses over very early.

Take my R33 for example, once I'm done with it. It might come "all in" by say 4300rpm with a good 2bar of boost but will keep making positive power all the way to 8.5k rpm or even more. Street use, if you're not in that rpm range then it would fall on it's face, but on a track environment it's nothing a VAG could ever deliver.

Another thing when I work with customers to build cars and tune them I always start with requirements not numbers.

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

I have been interested in a DSG tune for a little while now, and wanted to ensure the DSG/TCU tuner was familiar with APR ECU tunes and would complement it. When completing the order form, TVS request info about your tuner and tune, dyno/torque curves and any special requests.

I am curious as to whether increasing the LC to 4500 RPM will affect 0-100 time.....I suspect this will just induce more wheel spin....at this stage I’ll let others conduct that experiment....

So curiousoty got the better of me and I have a TVS TCU tune with launch control set at 4500 RPM. I will load it when Ive got some spare time and vbox. TVS did say that this will put greater strain on the driveline, so I might just do a few runs then go back to the 4000 rpm launch setting. I suspect this won’t improve the 4.1s 0-100 time, and will result in greater wheel spin (I was already spinning at 4000 rpm launch). But let’s see what happens in real world testing......

[tigger73]

So curiousoty got the better of me

You know what they said about curiosity and cats...

I have a TVS TCU tune with launch control set at 4500 RPM. TVS did say that this will put greater strain on the driveline

Ramee and Guy tested the limits of the Gen1 drivetrain and now Melbourne_Tiggy is doing it for the Gen2 team...

so I might just do a few runs then go back to the 4000 rpm launch setting. I suspect this won’t improve the 4.1s 0-100 time, and will result in greater wheel spin (I was already spinning at 4000 rpm launch). But let’s see what happens in real world testing......

Maybe need some better tyres than the stockies...

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

You know what they said about curiosity and cats...



Ramee and Guy tested the limits of the Gen1 drivetrain and now Melbourne_Tiggy is doing it for the Gen2 team...



Maybe need some better tyres than the stockies...

I have yet to see an IS38 Tiguan with a 4500 RPM LC, even our Russian comrades haven’t set it that high..........probably because it might break something. Although on a few highly tuned Golf Rs I have seen this work, noting they are running upgraded suspension, mounts, wheels and tyres.

I have on the development plan, upgraded tyres to Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. I was thinking of changing to lighter wheels, but I do love the stock Suzuka’s and it does give the car it’s unassuming “sleeper” look. I might borrow a light wheel set with MPS4 or racing slicks in the future and see whether this has an affect on vbox times. One hypothesis at a time........

[tigger73]

I have yet to see an IS38 Tiguan with a 4500 RPM LC, even our Russian comrades haven’t set it that high..........probably because it might break something. Although on a few highly tuned Golf Rs I have seen this work, noting they are running upgraded suspension, mounts, wheels and tyres.

I have on the development plan, upgraded tyres to Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. I was thinking of changing to lighter wheels, but I do love the stock Suzuka’s and it does give the car it’s unassuming “sleeper” look. I might borrow a light wheel set with MPS4 or racing slicks in the future and see whether this has an affect on vbox times. One hypothesis at a time........

Definitely a set of grippier tyres will help with the time, but these will also cause higher stresses. The stock tyres slipping is probably a good thing in terms of preserving your drivetrain.

But either way I'm interested in the outcome of your experiment. I'm guessing the lure of a 3.99s 0-100 is tantalising....

[Hole46]

My drivetrain is evil, it must be punished!


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[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Definitely a set of grippier tyres will help with the time, but these will also cause higher stresses. The stock tyres slipping is probably a good thing in terms of preserving your drivetrain.

But either way I'm interested in the outcome of your experiment. I'm guessing the lure of a 3.99s 0-100 is tantalising....

Yeap, something needs to take the brute force.....tyres are probably cheaper to replace than my transfer box (I read what happed to Ramee, that was very unfortunate). I’m hoping this iteration of the DQ500 for MQB is stronger and can hold up to more torque punishment.

So close to dipping into the 3s, yet so far. I’m not desperate enough (yet) to start doing weight reduction with passenger and rear seats, spare tyre and child seat removal......