Tigger73's 162TSI Sportline

[tigger73]

Well done! Now you have a baseline before you install your hybrid IS38 and get a custom tune.

Yes still have to decide which route to head in terms of hardware and tuning.


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[tigger73]

Tigger am I reading that correctly......461nm atw?????

That’s 461Nm at the roller. This is uncorrected torque measured by the dyno. Some people will then try and calculate a torque figure but it’s pretty difficult as it will depend on tyre size and a bunch of other driveline parameters.


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[rscott4563]

That’s 461Nm at the roller. This is uncorrected torque measured by the dyno. Some people will then try and calculate a torque figure but it’s pretty difficult as it will depend on tyre size and a bunch of other driveline parameters.


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That doesn't make any sense, if the calculation for torque isn't accurate or can't be taken as true at the wheel figure, then neither can the kW figure as the two are directly linked, kW is a function of Torque.

So either they're both accurate or neither is.

WEN Technology - Calculators
Power-Torque - WEN Technology


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[tigger73]

That doesn't make any sense, if the calculation for torque isn't accurate or can't be taken as true at the wheel figure, then neither can the kW figure as the two are directly linked, kW is a function of Torque.

So either they're both accurate or neither is.

WEN Technology - Calculators
Power-Torque - WEN Technology


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Power figures are kwaw which are a calculated value.

Torque figures on the dyno sheet are the actual/measured torque on the dyno roller.

I'm not sure of the actual calculation/conversion that is used for the kwaw power figures, but the dyno guys do it all day every day so I'll take their word for it.

There's always discussion about torque. Some dyno operators will print out torque curves and give you a calculated engine torque (so you can try and compare it to manufacturer figures), however there's a lot of errors/assumptions when you do this (like exactly how squashed were the tyres on the roller and how worn are your tyres) so it's really hard to calculate the engine torque accurately which is why this dyno operator just gives the measured dyno torque value (which is true/correct).

[rscott4563]

Power figures are kwaw which are a calculated value.

Torque figures on the dyno sheet are the actual/measured torque on the dyno roller.

I'm not sure of the actual calculation/conversion that is used for the kwaw power figures, but the dyno guys do it all day every day so I'll take their word for it.

There's always discussion about torque. Some dyno operators will print out torque curves and give you a calculated engine torque (so you can try and compare it to manufacturer figures), however there's a lot of errors/assumptions when you do this (like exactly how squashed were the tyres on the roller and how worn are your tyres) so it's really hard to calculate the engine torque accurately which is why this dyno operator just gives the measured dyno torque value (which is true/correct).

Refer to my previous link, physics don't lie.

kW (or HP) and Nm (or lbft) are directly linked, power is a result of rpm and torque.

Not saying there is anything wrong with the figures you have on your dyno report. Just saying that if you are saying that the torque figure is not accurate then unfortunately neither is your power figure. But also vice versa. [emoji106]


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[tigger73]

Refer to my previous link, physics don't lie.

kW (or HP) and Nm (or lbft) are directly linked, power is a result of rpm and torque.

Not saying there is anything wrong with the figures you have on your dyno report. Just saying that if you are saying that the torque figure is not accurate then unfortunately neither is your power figure. But also vice versa. [emoji106]

Understand what you're saying. I'm not too fussed about the torque figure to be honest. You change your tyres (or what gear you're running in) and you'll end up with a different figure.

I'm not trying to relate it back to manufacturer figures (which some people try to) so I'm not really worried.

What is most important is that I run back on the same dyno with simliar conditions and I can then compare stock vs stage 1 vs stage 2

[rscott4563]

You change your tyres (or what gear you're running in) and you'll end up with a different figure.

Just remember that this "different figure" will be both the torque and kW figures.

What is most important is that I run back on the same dyno with simliar conditions and I can then compare stock vs stage 1 vs stage 2

Agreed, that's the key. Actual figures reported on a dyno (especially peak figures) are pretty pointless due to the shear number of variables between dyno types, testing methods, external factors, etc. It's all about the delta and keeping all testing conditions as identical as possible.


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[Ozsko]

You can forget even doing reliable back to back comparisons unless they are done on the same day on a chassis dyno, too many variables and even the operator can influence what the outcome is. Chassis dynos are good for doing stuff like mapping or fault finding which they do well but getting reliable & repeatable figures out of one is like drawing numbers out of a hat. It takes a lot of dedicated training to get good numbers out of an engine dyno and that has a lot less influence from outside factors.

[tigger73]

You can forget even doing reliable back to back comparisons unless they are done on the same day on a chassis dyno, too many variables and even the operator can influence what the outcome is. Chassis dynos are good for doing stuff like mapping or fault finding which they do well but getting reliable & repeatable figures out of one is like drawing numbers out of a hat. It takes a lot of dedicated training to get good numbers out of an engine dyno and that has a lot less influence from outside factors.

Although I agree with what you're saying, there's not really too many other options that are 1) affordable 2) give reasonable results.

The dyno I use is one of the highest use Mainline dynos in the country. I'm well aware that there's a number of factors that can have a big influence on the result (tyre pressures, ambient temps, heat soak in warming up, strapping tension, ramp rate, etc, etc). I'm well aware it's not perfect, however if you get a good operator you can achieve some reasonably repeatable results.

I'll also be doing some time 0-100 runs in the not too distant future and the combination of the 2 will give a reasonable indication of the performance of the car. Who knows I may even put it down the 1/4 mile, however I'm not really chasing numbers. It's a daily driver and it has to do that job well (my mods are geared around making it the most enjoyable daily driver) and the other stuff is really a bonus.

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Although I agree with what you're saying, there's not really too many other options that are 1) affordable 2) give reasonable results.

The dyno I use is one of the highest use Mainline dynos in the country. I'm well aware that there's a number of factors that can have a big influence on the result (tyre pressures, ambient temps, heat soak in warming up, strapping tension, ramp rate, etc, etc). I'm well aware it's not perfect, however if you get a good operator you can achieve some reasonably repeatable results.

I'll also be doing some time 0-100 runs in the not too distant future and the combination of the 2 will give a reasonable indication of the performance of the car. Who knows I may even put it down the 1/4 mile, however I'm not really chasing numbers. It's a daily driver and it has to do that job well (my mods are geared around making it the most enjoyable daily driver) and the other stuff is really a bonus.

Hi Tigger, I highly recommend using a Draggy device for measuring your performance stats. As part of its data capture it validates the angle of the terrain (%incline/decline) and if it’s within a certain threshold you can post it and compare your performance to cars in Au and around the world. In terms of accuracy, it has been demonstrated to be similar to Vbox. A great little device for under $200.

All the best with your performance journey. I’m looking forward to reading about your selections and stats!

Cheers

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Like I said on your Facebook post, if you already have engine RPM you can set the readout to Derived Torque, which will give you a lower reading but an accurate reading of torque measured.

Pressing F2 and it will take you to the dyno run mods, then press SETUP on the right hand side. There's a check box to display derived torque and derived RPM if you're not using a RPM pick up.

If you can't get a RPM readout, go to the main screen by pressing ESC then hit Ctrl + S. Snap your car into a 1:1 ratio and sync the RPM readout from the car to whatever is set in the derived RPM screen.

Easy!

[tigger73]

Like I said on your Facebook post, if you already have engine RPM you can set the readout to Derived Torque, which will give you a lower reading but an accurate reading of torque measured.

Yes understand with calculated power you also get calculated torque. I'm not sure if they're picking up RPM from the OBD in which case there's a bit of a lag in readings.

Either way I'm not that fussed about the torque numbers. I'm more looking at area under the curve and overall % increases.

[tigger73]

Hi Tigger, I highly recommend using a Draggy device for measuring your performance stats. As part of its data capture it validates the angle of the terrain (%incline/decline) and if it’s within a certain threshold you can post it and compare your performance to cars in Au and around the world. In terms of accuracy, it has been demonstrated to be similar to Vbox. A great little device for under $200.

All the best with your performance journey. I’m looking forward to reading about your selections and stats!

I'll hopefully get my hands on a G-tech unit to do the 0-100 but if I can't I'll look into a Draggy mainly because of the connection/sharing function. The Vbox uses a 20Hz GPS unit and the newer units on the market now are 50Hz which tends to eliminate a lot of the inaccuracy with start/end of run timing.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Yes understand with calculated power you also get calculated torque. I'm not sure if they're picking up RPM from the OBD in which case there's a bit of a lag in readings.

Either way I'm not that fussed about the torque numbers. I'm more looking at area under the curve and overall % increases.

Yeah of course, it's a tuning tool!

But I do hate it when some workhops list out incorrect torque figures and annouce to the world of Facebook this car made XYZ nm of torque, and that it's more than ABC car.

Also if you set derived torque up, the power figures do not change

[Ozsko]

I'll hopefully get my hands on a G-tech unit to do the 0-100 but if I can't I'll look into a Draggy mainly because of the connection/sharing function. The Vbox uses a 20Hz GPS unit and the newer units on the market now are 50Hz which tends to eliminate a lot of the inaccuracy with start/end of run timing.

GPS with a signal sample rate higher than 10hz used to be very suspect, Haltech tried it for a short time and reverted to 10hz because of the dodgy data they were getting. We ran a full data parallel setup on the race car, using physical and GPS channels and the GPS ALWAYS lagged by significant amounts. 50hz GPS? seeing that the satellites have never changed I would be very interested in comparing that to 10hz. Things may have changed in the receivers, I remain sceptical but willing to learn.