N205 valve replacement on Mk6 GTI 2.0TSI (EA888) engine

[Lucas_R]

In my quest to find the source of my start-up rattle in our Mk6 GTI, I am just about to replace the camshaft adjustment magnet with the revised item, and following that, I will be looking to replace the N205 valve. Link to product: N205 valve for 2.0TSI engine

Several weeks ago I removed the camshaft adjuster magnet and flushed it out with degreaser & brake cleaner as the pin/piston was hard to move in and out. After cleaning, the pin/piston moved more freely. I noticed that when you shook the camshaft adjuster magnet that it make a metallic rattle similar to the sound the engine makes on cold starts. So I decided to order a new camshaft adjuster magnet (which will arrive this week) in case this was part of the issue. Link to product: Camshaft adjuster magnet for 2.0TSI engine

While the camshaft adjuster magnet was off, I could push the N205 valve in and out quite easily with my finger.

Now on the older FSI engines, the N205 valve appears to be more accessible and easier to change – but on the newer TSI engine, the N205 valve is screwed into the centre of the inlet camshaft (hidden underneath the camshaft adjuster magnet) and would appear to be more complicated to access/change.

Unfortunately I cannot find any information on the internet about faulty N205 valve on the newer TSI engines – so im flying blind.

Looking for advice from some of the VW tech’s on here as to the following:

1) Are any special tools needed to change the N205 on a 2.0TSI (EA888 ) engine? (Eg can a mechanically minded person change this part at home with basic tools or will I need to take it back to the dealership?)
2) Would you think a faulty or blocked N205 valve could cause a rattle on cold/cool starts?
3) Are there any tests to confirm whether my existing N205 valve is faulty? Will do a VCDS scan tonight to see if it shows anything.
4) The rattle only occurs on either cold starts (eg after being parked overnight) or if the engine has been turned off for about an hour or more. If the engine is only turned off for 20 mins for example it will not rattle on start-up. The metallic rattle lasts for approx 1.0 -1.5 seconds
5) What price (approx) would you expect this would cost if a dealer or independent mechanic is doing the work?

Some history on the car if that helps:
- Purchased 2nd hand 12 months ago with 55,000km on it.
- Full service history by VW dealer and only 1 owner since new. Car was built late 2009.
- A startup rattle became apparent a few months after purchasing – and I made the assumption that it could be the timing chain tensioner. Had my local Audi dealership replace the timing chain tensioner, chain guides, cover plate and all bolts in Oct 2014. This cost me $950. The oil was also changed at this time as part of the work.
- Rattle still evident after tensioner etc was replaced.
- Took car back to dealer for check and was told noise was “normal”.
- Car now has 67,000km on it and has had 2x oil changes in the last 12 months (Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w-30 and genuine oil filters).
- Engine oil level is full as always as I check it several times every month.


Sorry for the lengthy post, but i've tried to put as much info as possible to assist with diagnosis. Thanks in advance.

[Umai Naa!!]

This should get you out of trouble:

SEAT Workshop Manuals > Leon Mk1 > Power unit > 4 cylinder Injected engine (engine 1.8 l and 2.0 l, timing chain) > Engine cylinder head, valve gear > Chain drive > Removing and fitting the distribution chain

Cliffnotes:

- Remove the magnet
- Remove upper chain cover
- Remove adjuster valve by undoing clockwise
- You may need to counterhold the crankshaft (prevent rotation via breaker bar, 19mm socket)
- You WILL need special VAG tool T10352, or T10352/1 depending on engine code.
- Tighten new valve anti-clockwise to 35Nm

Hope this helps.

EDIT: If you punch 'T10352' into Ebay, there are listings for a tool that covers both variations of the valve, and to me, it's reasonably-priced.

[Snail Style]

Can get away without counterholding the crank while you whack the ratchet to undo the valve. In saying that, have never witness a rattle caused by either of these valves.

Also just check if you need a revised connector for the cam adjuster as when we are supplied them by VW you need to change that over as well.

[The One]

Can get away without counterholding the crank while you whack the ratchet to undo the valve. In saying that, have never witness a rattle caused by either of these valves.

Also just check if you need a revised connector for the cam adjuster as when we are supplied them by VW you need to change that over as well.

Yes as the cam adjuster is now a superseeded plastic part.

There also was a recall of the bearing saddle re. oil strainer issues on the saddle itself, if left too long looses oil pressure and scores the camshaft which always resulted in a new cylinder head. Did not cause any rattle though I believe...

[Lucas_R]

Thanks for the info guys - much appreciated.

Yes the new cam adjuster magnet is a plastic part, and ive ordered a new connector for it as well as id read it was different.

@Snail Style - you say that you dont know of the N205 causing a rattle in your experience? The rattle i have definitely sounds like its coming from the top of the engine somewhere....so if not the cam adjuster magnet or the N205 do you have any suggestions on what it could be. Its driving me mad and id really like to fix it. My local VW dealer isnt interested and said "its normal" and so did my local Audi dealer - so im on my own.

[piper26]

Do you have an audio file??

The items you are replacing are known to leak but not cause rattles. Especially on start up.

If you are certain it's from the top of the engine are you sure it's the timing cover area?? Are you hearing the fuel pressure and oil pressure build up??

The high pressure fuel systems in these cars do 'rattle' when low on pressure and is the rattle only on cold start or at any time?

[Snail Style]

Hard to really say what could be causing a rattle from the top end, as I haven't really had many rattles on the MK6 GTI from the engine. As piper said the fuel system does get noisy when low on pressure, however you would be noticing more issues if there was a problem there.

Both that valve and solenoid are very simple in design, the valve directs oil pressure and the solenoid controls that. It would be a good idea to replace the solenoid as if you have the metal one, they have been superseded. The valve I would just pull out and give a good clean up.

The bearing saddle would be worth replacing as the loss of that one-way valve could potentially starve somewhere of oil pressure(possibly the n205 valve) and cause a rattle.

Those kind of things are near impossible to diagnose via the internet unless they are a common issue. Best thing to do would be hook up a chassis ear to the car and try to pin point the issue.

[Lucas_R]

If you punch 'T10352' into Ebay, there are listings for a tool that covers both variations of the valve, and to me, it's reasonably-priced.

Umai Naa!!- i think i would like to remove the N205 valve and inspect/clean it. Is this the tool you are referring too? If so, then i wonder if my Schwaben brake calliper reset kit might work as it has about 6 different sized bases? If not, then at least the correct tool isn't too expensive: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=181432020859

I replaced the camshaft adjuster magnet the other day with the updated plastic version + new plug but it hasn't made any difference.

Do you have an audio file??

The items you are replacing are known to leak but not cause rattles. Especially on start up.

If you are certain it's from the top of the engine are you sure it's the timing cover area?? Are you hearing the fuel pressure and oil pressure build up??

The high pressure fuel systems in these cars do 'rattle' when low on pressure and is the rattle only on cold start or at any time?

I can get an audio file with my phone if you think it will be of any help. I have also wondered if the noise might be either the HPFP or another part of the fuel delivery system.

[piper26]

Doubt the brake tool will work. The holes on te valve are off centre to the bolt/ valve. Also the holes are easily rounded out so be careful regardless.

Audio files definitely can help

[Lucas_R]

N205 valve replacement on Mk6 GTI 2.0TSI (EA88 engine

Here are 2 short videos of my car during a cold startup:

The first video was taken about 4-5months ago, prior to having the chain tensioner replaced.

VW Golf Mk6 GTI (2.0 TSI) engine timing chain tensioner rattle - YouTube


The second video was taken a few weeks ago - surprisingly the rattle wasn't as noticeable/last as long as usual during this video.


Mk6 GTI startup engine rattle (not chain tensioner) - YouTube

[Umai Naa!!]

Yes, you need the special tool(s) to get the valve out.

As per above, the holes are offset from centre, so I'd be quite surprised if you found something else that actually fitted.

[piper26]

Here are 2 short videos of my car during a cold startup:

The first video was taken about 4-5months ago, prior to having the chain tensioner replaced.

VW Golf Mk6 GTI (2.0 TSI) engine timing chain tensioner rattle - YouTube


The second video was taken a few weeks ago - surprisingly the rattle wasn't as noticeable/last as long as usual during this video.

While watching this second video just now, i noticed the inlet manifold flap mechanism going nuts for a few seconds after startup - is this normal?

Mk6 GTI startup engine rattle (not chain tensioner) - YouTube

Unfortunately mate the video doesn't sound abnormal at all. I wouldn't be able to justify charging an hour to chaseany noise there.

The manifold runners will activate once started ( like a self check). Based on the video it would appear that your vacuum actuator for your manifold flaps isn't secured and possibly broken. Hence the multiple attempts to activate to verify any concern.

Have you done a dtc check on the engine. Based on what I saw I would expect to see a code logged for either an implausible signal or mechanical malfunction logged for the manifold flaps.

In terms of your Intermit noise. Might seem like a silly question but where do you set your oil level to??

Does the noise happen when engine is both hot or cold but has been sitting for about 30min? If you start the car and it happens. If you were to turn off then start again does it happen again?

-ben

[Lucas_R]

N205 valve replacement on Mk6 GTI 2.0TSI (EA88 engine

Yes, you need the special tool(s) to get the valve out.

As per above, the holes are offset from centre, so I'd be quite surprised if you found something else that actually fitted.

Thanks again mate - i have ordered the special tool from Ebay in the UK and will remove and clean the N205 valve out.

Unfortunately mate the video doesn't sound abnormal at all. I wouldn't be able to justify charging an hour to chase any noise there.

The manifold runners will activate once started ( like a self check). Based on the video it would appear that your vacuum actuator for your manifold flaps isn't secured and possibly broken. Hence the multiple attempts to activate to verify any concern.

Have you done a dtc check on the engine. Based on what I saw I would expect to see a code logged for either an implausible signal or mechanical malfunction logged for the manifold flaps.

In terms of your Intermit noise. Might seem like a silly question but where do you set your oil level to??

Does the noise happen when engine is both hot or cold but has been sitting for about 30min? If you start the car and it happens. If you were to turn off then start again does it happen again?

-ben

Thanks Ben - oil level is kept on (or as close too) the full marking on the dipstick. Luckily this engine uses next-to-no oil so although i still check the oil every 7-10 days i very very rarely have to put any new oil in. The oil i use is a good quality VW504/507 approved oil too (LiquiMoly 4200 TopTec 5w-30) and the oil was changed only a few months ago.

Have run multiple DTC checks on the car using VCDS/Vagcom, most recent was last night - no errors for anything other than something with the N75 valve (which i believe is related to the GFB DV+ diverter valve upgrade fitted).

I will check the inlet manifold vacuum actuator shortly, in case it is loose/undone for some reason.

Yes noise can happen when engine is warm but if it been sitting 30-60mins or so. Generally doesn't happen if the engine has only been off for a short time (eg under 30mins).

[brad]

i can't hear an issue with the start.

What's all the movement under the intake / HPFP area?

[Lucas_R]

N205 valve replacement on Mk6 GTI 2.0TSI (EA88 engine

i can't hear an issue with the start.

What's all the movement under the intake / HPFP area?

I just realised what it is - its the gearshift connector moving on the gearbox as my wife shifts the car into neutral and flicks the gear lever from side-to-side. Look closely and you can tell.