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always exceptions to the rule. RS4 is probably one of a handful of Audis that make enthusiast grade, but owners are kidding themselves (as are C63 and M3 drivers for that matter) if they think their cars rank in the Porsche category. I have owned a Porsche and driven most of them (old and new) and nothing out there comes near them for all round engineering and driving dynamics. Having driven most of the modern day Audis and BMWs and Mercs, Audis rank far below BMWs for sheer driving pleasure (excuse the jingle) and lack the engineering solidarity of Mercedes. They are really dressed up VWs.
See -Accountants do know how to make rational choices
i'm an accountant... i spent mods around 1/2 of the GTI's price. so, i'm sure they were rational decisions
you need a wife Bernie! stop spending time on the forum and FINSIA stuffs
If it wasn't I would not own a Golf and would be annoying people on a different forum
Audi doesn't scream wanker like BMW does
Fair enough on the hot hatch. I have one and know what the rah is, but think a Beema 328i would not be a bad subsitute in future.
However, as Clarkson once said, all the cocks who had BMWs now have Audis. That is about the only thing I have to agree with him on - Audis are becoming the choice of real estate agents, investment bankers and soccer mums who use to have BMWs.
Nonetheless, what I have said in this thread all along is, Audis have shocking resale value despite being a decent German car, which is why the rhetoric is, you buy an Audi new at Audi/BMW/Mercedes premium prices, but sell next time at VW prices. However, I don't think an Audi is so great compared to a VW that it is worth the BMW type premium new hence why I stand by the value proposition - which is from what I have read, you and Brimway seem to at least agree on. But you guys may disagree and would happily buy a new Audi at a premium price and lose lots of $$$ later. Which would suit a value seeking person like me just fine
Current ride: 2014 Range Rover Evoque 5 Door TD4 Pure | 9 Spd Auto | Fuji White | Black Leather | 19 inch 'Dynamic' Wheels
Previous rides: MY11.5 Golf GTI 5 door | DSG | Candy White | 18' Detriots | Bluetooth | K&N Air Filter | Dancing Dials (Oh Yeah!)
| 1989 Porsche 944S2 Coupe| Guards Red| Leather| Sunroof| LSD
Given that this isn't an Audi forum so I will risk it, why did you (and Brimway for that matter) choose a VW over an Audi? Sounds like you both have an affection for the product, yet chose something else. I have nothing against Audi, but the price simply means that for the money brand new, BMW/Mercedes offer a better product (IMO and most car magazines around the world) and much higher resale values (used car market has clearly spoken on that one, which no one can deny based on the far reaching evidence across the range), while VW offer better value for essentially the same product. I think every VW owner here would agree, or else they would have bought an Audi, or at least, buy a USED Audi for a NEW VW price. Which was my rhetoric all along.
I still think the point is being missed, I tried to point this out but it keeps being brought back to brand and money. I am brand agnostic, if the Subaru Liberty Gen V was not an ugly POS I would have been driving the GT version now. I had the Gen 4 and loved it, i wanted one with poke so thought I would get the Gen V turbo when it came out and OMG what a shocker.
I had been following the award winning GTI for some years and was on my shopping list, never considered the BMW or Merc, just nothing there that caught my attention. I took the A3 for a run and like my wife found it to be pedestrian and dated,, I mean that shape has been around since i was a kid. The drive was sensible and smooth but had no fizz.. enter the enthusiast.
Went to go buy a GTI and the R was just released.. well that was it really.. bit of a head over heart affair .. the GTI made more economical sense but the R made more driving sense.
My view is money spent on a car is sunk.. its gone , forget about it, if you look after it two things will happen, it will look after you and someone will take it off your hands down the track.
Now you like running things by spreadsheet, and it is a sensible thing to do, I used to until i could afford to do whatever I wanted. Now I just live within my means.. but the key word is Live..
Current Ride: MY 16 Daytona Pearl Grey Audi S3- Performance Pack 1, Sunroof and Driver assist
I still think the point is being missed, I tried to point this out but it keeps being brought back to brand and money. I am brand agnostic, if the Subaru Liberty Gen V was not an ugly POS I would have been driving the GT version now. I had the Gen 4 and loved it, i wanted one with poke so thought I would get the Gen V turbo when it came out and OMG what a shocker.
I had been following the award winning GTI for some years and was on my shopping list, never considered the BMW or Merc, just nothing there that caught my attention. I took the A3 for a run and like my wife found it to be pedestrian and dated,, I mean that shape has been around since i was a kid. The drive was sensible and smooth but had no fizz.. enter the enthusiast.
Went to go buy a GTI and the R was just released.. well that was it really.. bit of a head over heart affair .. the GTI made more economical sense but the R made more driving sense.
My view is money spent on a car is sunk.. its gone , forget about it, if you look after it two things will happen, it will look after you and someone will take it off your hands down the track.
Now you like running things by spreadsheet, and it is a sensible thing to do, I used to until i could afford to do whatever I wanted. Now I just live within my means.. but the key word is Live..
Agreed. I still don't why everyone is so defensive about Audi Vs the others. This isn't an Audi forum so I will put it out there, cold hard facts remain that Audis have dog crap resale value and have done so for years so no sympathy to owners who whinge on trade in time, their cars are not a quantum leap forward compared to the VWs they are based on which is why we all have VWs at the end. Even if we could afford a new Audi (which for the record, I can quite easily afford as well if I so wanted to and a very good model at that), I think most here prefer VW because of the value proposition.
But if an Audi REALLY does float your boat, that is ok too.
Current ride: 2014 Range Rover Evoque 5 Door TD4 Pure | 9 Spd Auto | Fuji White | Black Leather | 19 inch 'Dynamic' Wheels
Previous rides: MY11.5 Golf GTI 5 door | DSG | Candy White | 18' Detriots | Bluetooth | K&N Air Filter | Dancing Dials (Oh Yeah!)
| 1989 Porsche 944S2 Coupe| Guards Red| Leather| Sunroof| LSD
Agreed. I still don't why everyone is so defensive about Audi Vs the others. This isn't an Audi forum so I will put it out there, cold hard facts remain that Audis have dog crap resale value and have done so for years so no sympathy to owners who whinge on trade in time, their cars are not a quantum leap forward compared to the VWs they are based on which is why we all have VWs at the end. Even if we could afford a new Audi (which for the record, I can quite easily afford as well if I so wanted to and a very good model at that), I think most here prefer VW because of the value proposition.
But if an Audi REALLY does float your boat, that is ok too.
What I think is ridiculous is thinking that the same car with a different badge is an enthusiasts choice. When it's not.
Audi S3. Sold
Golf R. Sold
Citroen DS3 Dsport. Sold
2016 Skoda Octavia RS Wagon.
I would have never considered an S3 if it were not for the VW GTI/R. Not many people know about the performance Audis, which is great, because their resale values are horrendous.
Money spent on cars is definitely a sunk cost and a personal preference. Those that do not enjoy driving or aren't enthusiasts will never understand why people modify or sink so much money into their cars.
The only reason that I would even consider changing is that I want a traditional manual - my DSG GTI is more than enough for my needs. I may wait another year to see how prices go. However, based on current prices I could see myself getting into an '08 S3 and still break even.
S3 is a good car in isoloation, but not at the premium over a GTi or R. The current model will take even more of a bath on resale as the new A3 is already released. Look out for 3 yr old version fetching 40% of their RRP soon!
I still think that enthusiasts will be concerned about resale and all - who the hell wants to throw money away? Unless you have more money than brain cells, money is hard enough to make without the govt taxing the crap out of what little is left after they take the first lot. So I do not buy into the enthusiasts don't care about $$$ at all statement. Unless they buy Alfas and Maseratis of course (and also new Audis while I am on the subject - still debatable if enthusiasts actually buy Audis).
Pretty much all new Audi owners lose huge $$$ and all bitch about why their cars are worth so little relative to the same BMW or Mercedes. But that will be good for people like us who know the used car value and pick up a prestige car for a VW price (or less). So what is all the fuss about? Looks like everyone who has thrown their 2 bobs worth agrees that you buy a new Audi at a BMW/Mercedes Benz price but sell next time at VW prices.
Current ride: 2014 Range Rover Evoque 5 Door TD4 Pure | 9 Spd Auto | Fuji White | Black Leather | 19 inch 'Dynamic' Wheels
Previous rides: MY11.5 Golf GTI 5 door | DSG | Candy White | 18' Detriots | Bluetooth | K&N Air Filter | Dancing Dials (Oh Yeah!)
| 1989 Porsche 944S2 Coupe| Guards Red| Leather| Sunroof| LSD
I still think that enthusiasts will be concerned about resale and all - who the hell wants to throw money away? Unless you have more money than brain cells, money is hard enough to make without the govt taxing the crap out of what little is left after they take the first lot. So I do not buy into the enthusiasts don't care about $$$ at all statement. Unless they buy Alfas and Maseratis of course (and also new Audis while I am on the subject - still debatable if enthusiasts actually buy Audis).
I don't buy into global warming and its relation to Carbon tax either but I still have to pay it.. sure i care about it but the heart wants what the heart wants.. umm I mean the labour govt wants what is in your wallet.
Current Ride: MY 16 Daytona Pearl Grey Audi S3- Performance Pack 1, Sunroof and Driver assist
I saw a 4-5 year old 3 door Audi S3 with about 60,000km odo selling at a Parramatta Road dealership for 37K in the recent past. I figure the dealer must have paid about high 20,s to 30K for this vehicle. In contrast ... I sold my last MKV GTI 3.5 yrs old with 45,000km for 34K privately. Not exactly apples for apples, but a 70K Audi for similar price as a 50K MKV GTI ... stick with Volkswagen if you want a better chance of trading-up for less $$$.
Cheers.
WJ
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