MK6 Manual vs DSG Discussion Thread

[Sharkie]

that would be an interesting legal case.

how many people were sat down and asked to read and understand the detailed warranty before they bought the car? an implied warranty is not enforceable unless it is explicitly raised prior to the contract being concluded

Not in getting into express v implied warranties here, I'm sure VW has better legal experts than us out here and I'd find it hard to believe that any warranty denial challenge (express or implied) would stand up in court if abuse was involved .... and VWs legal might and wealth brought with it. But then what would I know .... my 1 law degree is 15yrs old and not from Australia and the other from Australia is merely a few months old .... and I've spent the better part of the last 15 yrs either trying to enforce contracts, service agreements & warranties from a business customer perspective or trying to deny contract, service agreement & warranty claims & challenges from a supplier perspective. There are almost no lenghts a supplier won't go to, to get out of a liability thats going to cost them money if they in any way or form can blame it on the customer .....

[Johnson4]

I bought a manual GTI, and would have to say the gearshift is the most disappointing thing with the car (a minor disappointment, not a game-changer, mind you).

The best shift I've ever owned was in an MX-5 -- very short, very clicky -- and reviews I'd read said this was similar. However, it's really not -- it's quite long for a sports car, and there's a bit of play in the gate. Plus, there's absolutely no "click" when you drive the gear home, which I really miss. I'm guessing there's no physical gate under the boot at all.

I also reckon 6 gears is just too many to really enjoy manual shifting... the car's always asking me to go higher than I want, and I hate to disappoint (!). 5 gears is much easier to feel your way through... maybe I'll get used to it eventually.

If I was buying again, I'd get the DSG.

[cameronp]

If I was buying again, I'd get the DSG.

I've owned a car with a six-speed manual before and thought it felt about the right number of gears - sixth was nice for cruising quietly on the freeway. While I haven't driven a manual GTI, I did notice that the manual gearbox in the 103TDI was disappointing - smooth but as you said, quite a bit of play when it's in gear.

I bought a DSG Golf having never owned an 'automatic' before. It's much better than any other four-cylinder auto I've driven, but even after a few months it just feels ... wrong to be driving a car without a clutch pedal. Maybe I'll get used to it eventually.

[hooba]

I bought a manual GTI, and would have to say the gearshift is the most disappointing thing with the car (a minor disappointment, not a game-changer, mind you).

The best shift I've ever owned was in an MX-5 -- very short, very clicky -- and reviews I'd read said this was similar. However, it's really not -- it's quite long for a sports car, and there's a bit of play in the gate. Plus, there's absolutely no "click" when you drive the gear home, which I really miss. I'm guessing there's no physical gate under the boot at all.

I also reckon 6 gears is just too many to really enjoy manual shifting... the car's always asking me to go higher than I want, and I hate to disappoint (!). 5 gears is much easier to feel your way through... maybe I'll get used to it eventually.

If I was buying again, I'd get the DSG.

The worst part of having owned an MX-5 is having experienced a gear shift that you will use as the benchmark for all future manual cars. The MX-5 gear shift is sweet, and I remember an old car nut telling me that his long gone Formula Ford was the only gear shift that ever came close.

I agree with you that it can feel like there are too many gears, I've adjusted by usually selecting a higher gear than I normally would, and simply rowing it up into 6th and then surfing the torque wave from there. I've also got a MKV with DSG, and have no regrets in getting my GTI in a manual (however I agree there is plenty of room for improvement in the box).

[bjays76gti]

Theres nothing wrong with the manual shift in the mk6, gears are where they should be, ratio's are evenly spaced and it's not about what other cars you've driven it's about the differance between 1 manufacturers auto and manual differances, the dsg is great, very smooth quick shifts, oh and the blip on downshifts and the popping is awesome, but for all out fun, and every day non traffic driveability i'm stoked with the manual, I especially love at 80km/h in 3rd, planting the throttle and getting wheelspin, I bet you don't get that in the auto!!!

[Dubya]

an implied warranty is not enforceable unless it is explicitly raised prior to the contract being concluded

I think a pig just flew past my window . . .

Typically, the implied warranties upon which consumers rely are implied by law, eg Fair Trading Act (eg NSW) and Trade Practices Act (Cth). Such warranties are implied within the limits of the statute no matter what.

Even if a warranty were implied by custom (as opposed to law), such a term need not be "explicit" to be enforceable. After all, if it were "explicit" it would not be an implied term (it would be an express term).

[Corey_R]

Lets drop the warranty discussion. For those that cannot read the thread title, this is the MK6 Manual vs DSG Discussion Thread.

Cheers.

[logger]

There doesn't have to be any lag with the DSG, it's easy to remove the lag by engaging the clutches just before you take off just like you would in a manual.

Do you mean by applying revs above idle, while holding your foot on the brake? The DSG7 won't allow you to do this.

[Corey_R]

On the 6 speed DSG you can tap the accelerator and it will "engage the clutches for ~2 seconds".
Whether this is still the case or not I don't know, as I don't have a MK6 yet

[Maverick]

Do you mean by applying revs above idle, while holding your foot on the brake? The DSG7 won't allow you to do this.

Yes on the 6 speed you can do it as coreying pointed out above but you need to back off the brake pedal to the point where the clutches start to engage. The car is still being held in position at this point by the brakes and you don't need to press the accelerator in very far either as it will cut out at a certain point. It's something that you have to play with to get it right as it's hard to explain but it allows almost instant take off.

[Corey_R]

Yeah, for me there is no more "delay" in the 6sp DSG doing that method than there is in my Polo GTI in having to manually operate the clutch to take off...

[elephino]

I prefer a manual gearbox.
I bought mine with a manual gearbox.
If you give me another GTI with DSG, I'd enjoy driving that too.

[dave_r]

I've owned a car with a six-speed manual before and thought it felt about the right number of gears - sixth was nice for cruising quietly on the freeway.

My S15 had a bloody nice 6spd which I believe was also fitted to the MX5's and Lexus IS2xx? 6th was good on the freeway, but I found the other 5 ratios were great. I always use that as my reference gearbox and the VW unit doesn't come close, plus the DSG is just so nice. Was an easy choice for me.

[logger]

Do you mean by applying revs above idle, while holding your foot on the brake? The DSG7 won't allow you to do this.

On the 6 speed DSG you can tap the accelerator and it will "engage the clutches for ~2 seconds".
Whether this is still the case or not I don't know, as I don't have a MK6 yet

Yes on the 6 speed you can do it as coreying pointed out above but you need to back off the brake pedal to the point where the clutches start to engage. The car is still being held in position at this point by the brakes and you don't need to press the accelerator in very far either as it will cut out at a certain point. It's something that you have to play with to get it right as it's hard to explain but it allows almost instant take off.

Thanks, I see what you mean. The DSG7 has the accelerator cutout you mention. So you cannot get it above ~ 1200rpm with the brakes ON in Gear.
But it does not appear to have the ~2 sec engage period restriction. If I partially release the brake pedal without allowing the car to move, it will partially engage the K1 clutch and seemingly hold it there for an extended period. For at least 20 seconds if not longer. I think it might be organised to do things slightly differently.

Seems to have 4 incremental clutch positions which are (very roughly);
1)disengaged 2mm,
2)Stopped In gear 6mm,
3)about to get under way 10mm,
4)engaged 16mm.
Riding the brake gives you 3) instead of 2) which is likely to provide a quicker get away I suppose.

Anyway here is a rough log of it. I need to do it again with Eng RPM included. Also might look at the clutch friction co-efficients and temps as well.
Clutch Engagement.xls

[blanch0b]

to me the gear changes are perfect for my GTI, I would go DSG every time although given the majority of sales are DSG, in a few years time u may end up getting the same $$ for a 'rare manual' mk6 gti......

one thing i have noticed is that there is a slight problem moving from 2nd to 1st (in terms of a slight hop) but nothing to be concerned over - ill get the dealer to check it out when i go in for a service.... every other change is bang on for power when i need it in any driving circumstance.

at the end of the day its what u prefer to drive and are prepared to pay......