MK6 Manual vs DSG Discussion Thread

[hooba]

in a few years time u may end up getting the same $$ for a 'rare manual' mk6 gti......

What, like all those 2nd hand Alfa Romeos where people are paying more in order to get a manual....

[REXman]

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Whilst a well run in car is quicker than a newbie it is the increased familiarity that comes over time that makes up the largest portion of the improvement.

Not really. A cars engine after some KMs and a solid wearing in, simply makes more power than a fresh new engine. That's dyno proven too. That's where the largest improvement comes from. Learning curve plays a part but nothing like a motor in peak form.

Tbh I'm familiar with all cars that I have had at about the 2000-3000km Mark, as in, inside out with most things such as engine, engine noise, running gear, temps, idle and other things etc car nutters notice. As I'm sure a massive amount of people on here are.

[mfl]

to me the gear changes are perfect for my GTI, I would go DSG every time although given the majority of sales are DSG, in a few years time u may end up getting the same $$ for a 'rare manual' mk6 gti......

at the end of the day its what u prefer to drive and are prepared to pay......

My previous manuals where a VKSS Commodore 4sp manual V8 and a VL Commodore (5sp, nissan 6 cyl), compared to those cars the 6sp is on a different level all together, on the VK, you couldn't engage 2nd gear until the box had warmed up............ but I still think the throw is a little too long on the GTI and a short-throw kit maybe a future option.

In terms of 0 -100km/h, yes the DSG maybe faster and certainly drag cars have used automatics due to their characteristics for a long time in drag racing.

But a manual GTI, still has a different driving quality to the DSG,and I think still has the edge in driving satisfaction. but having said that they have both great drivers cars.

[Titanium]

My previous manuals where a VKSS Commodore 4sp manual V8 and a VL Commodore (5sp, nissan 6 cyl), compared to those cars the 6sp is on a different level all together, on the VK, you couldn't engage 2nd gear until the box had warmed up............ but I still think the throw is a little too long on the GTI and a short-throw kit maybe a future option.

But a manual GTI, still has a different driving quality to the DSG,and I think still has the edge in driving satisfaction. but having said that they have both great drivers cars.

Agree. My last two manuals were MX-5 and RX-8. Both agreed to be outstanding examples of manual gearboxes. The GTI's manual is not as good as either of these but is superior to WRX and LibertyGT. I then went auto. I missed a clutch. Yep DSG may be faster, but I test drove the DSG extensively, and also borrowed a friends new A4 2.0 TFSI quattro with 7 speed DSG. Its nice, but just not for me. A manual changes gear exactly when I want and doesn't change up or down if I don't want to. I really would have regretted getting the DSG. On the other hand I have no regrets that I bought the manual. Who knows how much longer I'll be able to purchase a sporty car with a traditional gearbox and clutch. This is not to inflame DSG users, just my personal preference.

To quote three different motoring articles: Wheels August 2010 talking about the Mk6 GTI " DSG is clever (and fuel thrifty) but isn't ideal when parking; the manual would be our pick, too."
Motor December 2008 talking about the GTI Pirelli Mk5, which in Oz was DSG only "as an alternative to a traditional automatic, it remains a highly respectable tool, but it's a real shame Aussies don't get to try the pumped up engine with the best gearbox".
Alternatively Georg Kacher in Motor May 2009 praises DSG, saying "the shift paddles of that magic transmission will hook you up to the core of the action like a pair of live wires." Just goes to prove that even journalists have varied opinions on this

So yep, I think DSG is technically brilliant, more consistent in 0-100km/h runs, but I don't care. Everytime I drove one I yearned for a manual. I never yearn for a DSG.
Just my two cents.

[hooba]

Just to add another 5 cents into this discussion, Porsche haven't offered the PDK in the GT3, GT2, and RS models due to the buyers of these kinds of cars demanding a manual transmission.

That said, I'd get my leg over a Turbo S with PDK no worries.

[dave_r]

Agree. My last two manuals were MX-5 and RX-8. Both agreed to be outstanding examples of manual gearboxes.

Yep, MX5, RX8, IS200 and S15 all shared the same box (made by Aisin, AZ6 I think they were). Excellent bit of kit. VW is nice, but not even close to the set of cogs in the Aisin.

Just to add another 5 cents into this discussion, Porsche haven't offered the PDK in the GT3, GT2, and RS models due to the buyers of these kinds of cars demanding a manual transmission.

I'd happily pay for the left knee reco if someone else footed the bill for a new GT2 RS

[peedman]

Of course the gti wont have as good feedback as an mx5 or rx8, they are both direct shift gearboxes with the lever operated directly ontop of the gearbox. The best bet to improve shifting would be to get a dieselgeek/forge/otherbrandsicantremember short shift kit.

As for dsg vs manual, whilst i was very impressed with the speed of the dsg, the blips on downshift, the flappy paddles and the not having to shift...i still prefer a manual. Not only does it give me something to do but its also $2500 cheaper

[Pepe]

I had an RX-8 and with a short throw kit on that gearbox, there was nothing better... if the Golf had a similar box in a similar ergonomic position to the RX-8, I'd have taken a manual even if it was half as efficient and 10 seconds slower 0-100.

So, I'll have to be content with the DSG and soon to be installed paddle shifters Not sure why, but if I was going to buy a GTI, I'd probably still go manual though.

[Corey_R]

Wheels August 2010 talking about the Mk6 GTI " DSG is clever (and fuel thrifty) but isn't ideal when parking; the manual would be our pick, too."

Lol... that's where they're going wrong! I buy my car for driving it! Not for parking it!


ON the topic of Porsche - their customers are now purchasing so many PDK's that there has already been questioning on whether there is any point developing further manual gearboxes. Porsche have publically announced that they will continue to do so, not because it makes any sense for their general car sales, but because it makes more sense for motorsport applications at this time. However, it's probably a very smart move on their part to NOT offer the PDK in the GT3, GT2, and RS - because if the uptake of the PDK came anywhere near the % of the regular Porsche models (or even the Ferrari or Lambo uptake), then that would likely be the nail in the coffin for manuals in Porsches!

[Tim]

Its an interesting predicament that porsche faces there. Honestly I think the PDK is more like what you would expect to find in a motorsport environment than a traditional manual.
The issue is that Porsches design ethos revolves around tactile feel in those high track day inspired models. Im thinking they will eventually have to concede for the sake of peformance.

Unfortunately outright peformance isnt always the most fun. I think the only way forward is to give customers the option at the end of the day. That way you can keep the purists and the technoweenies happy.

[x_rotary_rasp]

I had an RX-8 and with a short throw kit on that gearbox, there was nothing better... if the Golf had a similar box in a similar ergonomic position to the RX-8, I'd have taken a manual even if it was half as efficient and 10 seconds slower 0-100.

So, I'll have to be content with the DSG and soon to be installed paddle shifters Not sure why, but if I was going to buy a GTI, I'd probably still go manual though.

Agree 100%! RX-8 gearbox/(Aisin) are truly the best manual gearboxes out there. I've driven a manual Golf and the difference is noticeable. However, I went with a DSG. The upshifts are impressive... but I miss the smoothness of manually heel&toe down shifts.

DSG is OK!

[REXman]

Maybe mk6 manual vs dsg vs column shift! Now there's a transmission!

[mfl]

Its an interesting predicament that porsche faces there. Honestly I think the PDK is more like what you would expect to find in a motorsport environment than a traditional manual.

Unfortunately outright peformance isnt always the most fun. I think the only way forward is to give customers the option at the end of the day. That way you can keep the purists and the technoweenies happy.

When I play Need for Speed Most Wanted, I actually set it to auto, rather then manual because I find it faster and simpler - accelerate. brake, drift through corner accelerate etc.

am I being an old traditionalist you bet, doesn't matter how much faster, cleverer the DSG, it doesn't match the satisfaction of good clean shifts, up or down, when you want to make them.

as for Ferrari not offering a manual on their new Italia model and the F! gearbox sending the manual gearbox into distinction, I am not surprised .. I always liked Alan Moffat's comment along the lines, than being a Ferrari owner doesn't make you a Ferrari driver .

[ConR]

I like the manual gearbox on the MK6..I've driven manual all my life. The one thing I wish it had was a shorter throw. Seems too long.

And that's where the RX8 and MX5 excel. The throw on that gear shifter is like a flick...goes with ease.

Not to say the gearbox isn't smooth on the GTI...it is. And the clutch is nice and springy..almost too easy. Very easy to learn manual on this car if you don't know how.

[entice]

Manual throw on the GTI was much longer than my 1999 MX5 was.. much more notchier...

but it's much less notchier, but still much longer than my 03 STI ever was...

But, I chose the DSG.. Mostly for aural and spinal reasons