Mk6 Golf Acceleration & Performance Data

[AdamD]

As the ESP is off and this isn't an intelligent "Ferrari type" launch control, you still need to adjust the throttle to prevent excessive wheel spin and possible axle tramp if you have crappy tyres (wheel spin should not be an issue on the R).

This is probably more relevant for poor GTI drivers such as myself, but one poster on the forums here has suggested that, once you've got your foot on the brake and accelerator and are ready to make your launch, you can press the ESP button again to re-enable traction control. This then gives you quite possibly the fastest launch. I have to reiterate that I've not tried this myself, but just putting it out there.

Edit: Oh, and I would say, that at least with my MKV GTI, the only time the revs surged and dropped off, is if I had the accelerator pressed further than what would be giving me '3000 rpm' if I was just sitting in neutral. I think if you progressively take your foot off the accelerator, the revs should stabilise - but I haven't got a MK6 on hand to confirm this....

Ditto. I've tried launch control in Passat CCs and a Skoda Octavia RS - both of which exhibited the same behaviour you've described above.

[REXman]

Thats maybe why my experience was a bit different to yours Coreying. I had ESP set to on.

And it definitely was some type of launch control as the car took off and exhibited all the behaviours I mentioned in my post. But yeah there was no wheel spin or even close to it. Just a bit of a launch but no neck breaking action like WRX/Evo manual "drop the clutch" effort.

The thing I did wrong by the sounds of it, is I kept the accelerator pedal down on the floor? It still took off with the 3000rpm's though so I am not sure If I was that far off.

To describe it a bit better, I had initial resistance of the car against the brakes for a second.. but then the revs drop real low, the resistance goes, and then the revs start to climb again (with no resistance now).

Maybe It would be a quicker launch with ESP on, which would be even better than what i was already happy with to be honest.

On a side note, the thing I am liking about the golf GTI and R's.. is that I sold out of the WRX sheer speed club and joined up with team GOLF because of the sheer quality of the car's build and finish, and not as flash image, at what i thought was a cost of acceleration and grunt. I was expecting them to be quite slow TBH.

But then LMA posts a time of 4.68 for the 0-100 dash for just a flash tune so I was pretty happy with my decision to have a look at the VW's.

I cannot wait for the day when I dont have to talk about launch control with you coreying, and instead we can actually have a run in our cars!!

[Corey_R]

REXman, you definitely did not use the "DSG launch control". All you did was accelerate normally but had an initial load up on the brakes. If you waited long enough with that, the brake override would trigger, and the accelerator would be cut until you took your foot off the brake.

But yeah, I agree, can't wait to receive our cars.

I'm also excited to see whether AdamD's comment about turning the ESP back on after engaging the launch control actually works!

[logger]

... one poster on the forums here has suggested that, once you've got your foot on the brake and accelerator and are ready to make your launch, you can press the ESP button again to re-enable traction control. This then gives you quite possibly the fastest launch.

In theory, I doubt it. Because TCS reduces drive power by using two strategies. 1.EDL - Brake application and 2.Torque reduction. Either of which will slow you down. For an average to poor driver this would possibly give the fastest launch. But a good driver should be able to modulate the pedal to a poofteenth less than where TCS would intervene (had it been on), avoid the torque reduction and thus maximise available torque at the wheels.

If I understand correctly, it is only the engine management system intervention (2. above) that you can disable with the TCS/ESP button. The EDL part will still intervene regardless. By turning the TCS button off you are telling the system not to intervene via the engine management system to reduce torque. This ties in with what Coreying said about how you need TCS/ESP off to enable launch control and that you may still need to modulate torque because the sytem will not do it for you.
There are 4 or 5 ways the system can achieve this torque reduction depending on your vehicle. throttle, IGN, Injection, gear change suppression. None of them will occur with Launch control ON though.

As alway happy to be corrected.

[thelairster]

So it's great for the traffic lights GP and you can select your revs! You just can't go over 3000rpm (which as I said, isn't needed in the GTI anyway, but could maybe be of use in the R).

I think you can take the R higher than 3000rpm in launch control mode. Somewhere around 3600rpm seems the sweet spot for traction.

YouTube - VW Mk6 Golf R Launch Control 0-100 kmh

[chylld]

I can't begin to state how much I regret not getting an R now. *looks at his non-tunable 125i coupe and shakes his head*

FLM: yes, it's your fault.

[Corey_R]

I think you can take the R higher than 3000rpm in launch control mode. Somewhere around 3600rpm seems the sweet spot for traction.

YouTube - VW Mk6 Golf R Launch Control 0-100 kmh

I'm sure the perfect RPM to use to launch will depend on the road surface, tyres, and the "tune" of your car.
For example, on my APR Stage II MKV GTI, it was possibly as low as 1800rpm (can't recall exactly now)...

On a Stage I R, sending 435NM through the DSG and drive train at 3600rpm might be a bit brutal!

[AdamD]

In theory, I doubt it. Because TCS reduces drive power by using two strategies... [e]ither of which will slow you down. For an average to poor driver this would possibly give the fastest launch. But a good driver should be able to modulate the pedal to a poofteenth less than where TCS would intervene (had it been on), avoid the torque reduction and thus maximise available torque at the wheels.

I agree with your conclusion in theory, but I'm not 100% sure of the result in practise.

Yes - traction control will, by some means, reduce torque to the driven wheels - but so too does modulating the throttle. Wheelspin is all about torque exceeding available grip, so the real issue is - is the driver or the computer better at determining the point at which torque exceeds traction, cutting torque, and then reapplying throttle once the grip/torque balance is corrected? This equation can be further complicated by taking into account that a certain degree of wheelspin can be beneficial to a fast launch, because any kind of torque reduction - either via computer or driver, but particularly the latter - is not an instantaneous action, and if the delay is significant (and the engine falls off peak torque in the meantime), it can be better to just sit out the wheelspin.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that answer must therefore depend on both the driver and the computer, but in well-programmed modern sports cars, the balance is tipping in favour of the computer. I've read that the traction control on newer Ferraris has been programmed so well that it'll exceed the abilities of even the most talented, perceptive and proactive driver. I'm not for a moment suggesting the GTI or R systems are in the same league, but my experience in MkV demo GTIs suggests that the traction control is not overly aggressive and allows some slip, and is quick to reapply power after a short retardation.

So maybe the VW traction control can outperform most drivers - but then again, maybe not.

[jamesatfish]

Anyway, the point I'm making is that answer must therefore depend on both the driver and the computer, but in well-programmed modern sports cars, the balance is tipping in favour of the computer. I've read that the traction control on newer Ferraris has been programmed so well that it'll exceed the abilities of even the most talented, perceptive and proactive driver. I'm not for a moment suggesting the GTI or R systems are in the same league, but my experience in MkV demo GTIs suggests that the traction control is not overly aggressive and allows some slip, and is quick to reapply power after a short retardation.

I can't speak specifically about the Golf R, but in the AWD car I've got that has launch control, the computer is indeed smarter than the driver for delivering the quickest launch.

If there is wheel spin at launch, the computer not only detects it quicker than I can, but knows which of the 4 wheels are spinning. The computer can modulate power to the front or back axles, or brake an individual wheel, where as my only response is to reduce the throttle which reduces the torque sent to all 4 wheels.

The computer knows which engine map is being used at any given time, based upon the temperature of the engine and the ambient air, the quality of fuel being ingested etc, and thus knows the maximum torque sweet spot for launch. The computer can hold the revs at that spot, accurate to a few ten-RPM. I can only guess the current sweet spot based upon my knowledge of the torque curve in the handbook, and I can only hold the revs accurate to a few hundred-RPM.

The computer knows how much clutch life is left, so knows the best bite point for maximum traction. I have absolutely no idea on this one.

Finally, and probably most importantly, the computer won't baby any of the components. If you've asked for maximum launch, you'll get it and to hell with mechanical wear and tear. If I'm launching manually I'll always consider the effect on the vehicle components (and therefore my wallet when it comes to replacing consumables).

As technologies go, that car is a few years old now and I would be very surprised if the ECU in a 2010 VW wouldn't have the same or greater capabilities when it came to launch control.

[Sharkie]

I can't begin to state how much I regret not getting an R now. *looks at his non-tunable 125i coupe and shakes his head*

FLM: yes, it's your fault.

Speak to Guy, DMS (which he also represents) has got a chip for your 125i.

The 125i has a detuned version of the 130i & 330i engine and can potentially be chipped up to 216kw/346NM whic would make it a good match for a chipped GTI (RWD v FWD) and a stock R.

Not so untunable as you may think .....

Personally I think the 1 series coupes are better cars anyway ....

[chylld]

Speak to Guy, DMS (which he also represents) has got a chip for your 125i.

The 125i has a detuned version of the 130i & 330i engine and can potentially be chipped up to 216kw/346NM whic would make it a good match for a chipped GTI (RWD v FWD) and a stock R.

thanks, will shoot guy (I assume Guy_H) a message.

the DMS chip unfortunately only yields 16kW bringing the total power up to 176kW. even though the engine itself is identical to the 130i's engine, it lacks the latter's special 2-stage intake which is required for approaching 200kW.

the only companies i've talked to that are confident of getting 200kW with the standard intake are in germany - ds motorsport and winter tuning. but there's no way i'm shipping my ECU half-way around the world!

i'm currently running a tune from American company burger motorsports (their 'powerbox') which adds a measly 5kW, but was cheap ($300) and also gives 3 levels of throttle remapping which makes the car seem more lively.

but next to the R and its readily-available APR tune... it all just seems like a big fuss over nothing.

[robby_jai]

im gonna go out on a limb here... but im not convinced on this 4.68 sec run with JUST a stage 1 flash and nothing else. sorry but i dont buy it.

id believe 5 secs.... but 4.68 ???? my stage 1 modified My10 S3 which is virtually identical to the Golf R.. with less weight due to significantly lighter rims and hugely lighter brakes.... i only managed to clock a best time of 4.9 seconds... REPEATEDLY on a dead straight road.. verified by both a GPS AND a computer based timer linked into the cars OBDII port.

HOW you can nail 4.68 i dont know. either you've done more than you're letting on.. or you were on a slope. who knows but im not buying it

[REXman]

REXman, you definitely did not use the "DSG launch control". All you did was accelerate normally but had an initial load up on the brakes. If you waited long enough with that, the brake override would trigger, and the accelerator would be cut until you took your foot off the brake.

But yeah, I agree, can't wait to receive our cars.

I'm also excited to see whether AdamD's comment about turning the ESP back on after engaging the launch control actually works!

Ok Coreying, Im going to go with you on this one, cause there was no snap action to it, like there was on the GTI I tested, so moneys on your probably right.

[Fab_R]

im gonna go out on a limb here... but im not convinced on this 4.68 sec run with JUST a stage 1 flash and nothing else. sorry but i dont buy it.

id believe 5 secs.... but 4.68 ???? my stage 1 modified My10 S3 which is virtually identical to the Golf R.. with less weight due to significantly lighter rims and hugely lighter brakes.... i only managed to clock a best time of 4.9 seconds... REPEATEDLY on a dead straight road.. verified by both a GPS AND a computer based timer linked into the cars OBDII port.

HOW you can nail 4.68 i dont know. either you've done more than you're letting on.. or you were on a slope. who knows but im not buying it

Now this took a while didnt it robby_jai to come out on that "limb"!!

You dont buy it!

I repeat, only stage 1 done, no other modifications whatsoever, no slope (come on, please)....thats what it did, no BS. I have no reason to fudge the figures or mislead about the conditions.

The G-Tech Pro SS is an accurate piece of equipment.... See: GTech-Pro Accuracy Information

I would be more than happy to back up the results with Guy_H's data box which i believe is in Melbourne at the moment being tested on a S/C RS4.

[Corey_R]

If there was a slope, then what's more impressive is the 2nd run which is only .2 seconds slower at 4.88! hehe

robby_jai, is your S3 manual or DSG?
Sportback or 3 door?