Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[sabloke]

WhiteJames, this is the Golf R vs Golf GTI thread.

This is the MK6 Golf forum. Even though this is your thread, you need to stay on topic.
If you want to keep discussing Renaults in detail, then please create a thread in general discussion or something...

Why don't we have a Hot Hatch Chat thread yet? I know this is a VW forum, but many of us love hot hatches first and the VW brand second. I'm in fact yet to see someone buying an R or a GTI just because is a VW and not because it is fast, well built and exciting to look at
So, why not a hot hatch thread then?

PS: posts about your own hot hatch should be forbidden! We all know by now yours is the bestest, right?

[hooba]

Why don't we have a Hot Hatch Chat thread yet?

We do have such a thread. http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f40/...est-55342.html

[Corey_R]

Thanks hooba

[WhiteJames]

Lsd

EDL: Electronic Diff Lock

Both GTI and Golf R have an electronic diff lock whereby it applies brake on the unloaded inside spinning wheel sending drive outwards to enhance grip. EDL is used for the slow speed driving including ice and snow, as the previously posted youtube.com videos indicate. Additionally, the GTI also has XDS to reduce understeer for high speed application. As noted in the last review, the EDL does a reasonable job of reducing understeer on the FWD GTI and AWD Golf R. EDL is also good for reducing tyre wear as it prevents the inside wheel from losing traction to compensate for the extra distance the outside wheel has to travel.

A proper LSD, despite added weight and extra load on axles, is still a more effective instrument in terms of grip provided one wheel has traction (not the case with Wavetrac LSD).

Here’s a video of how a regular non-LSD differential works showing a clear illustration of how the outside wheel has to spin faster than the inside wheel around corners. Start the video at the 2 min mark to save time:

YouTube - How Differential Gear works (BEST Tutorial)

Coming to raw numbers, which seems to be what many of the harder core guys are interested in, even though it mainly involves going in straight line, which is boring for some - I managed to glean a rough estimate of average 400m DSG times of forum members at WSID for a stage 1 ECU Mark 6 GTI and stage 1 ECU Golf R:

GTI: 13.9 secs
R: 13.6 secs

In other words ... Sweet F.A. difference.

After having conducted the third drive review involving the GTI – v- RS250 and in light of earlier posts from others, I think any claims of GTI ownership bias are unfounded. Why? Well my current ratings, which are subject to change in the future:

1. Renault Megane RS250.
2. Golf GTI.
3. Polo GTI. *

The Golf R is out of the picture for WJ. The Polo GTI has not been driven, but at 35K - almost half the price of Ray’s Golf R and much lighter weight, it has to be a goer. Although I still reserve my judgement until I actually drive the Polo GTI.

It’s also worth noting that the new 2012 RWD BMW 1 series could be a goer if it receives a 4cyl turbo. In addition to the Mark 7 GTI due in 2013, which should have a wider track lowering the centre of gravity and improving handling, making it feel more like the Renault RS250 with its wider track. The motor in the Golf R has to sit higher in the engine bay to accommodate the AWD system, raising the centre of gravity at the front.

For now the GTI is plenty good, but in @ 3 years time when the GTI has a few more miles under its belt, I may look at picking up a Megane RS250, perhaps a Mark Webber or Seb Vettel F1 Special Edition if one becomes available.

Cheers
WJ

[hooba]

I generally find your reviews a good read, but the little credibility that your "ratings" have get blown away when you rate a car you have yet to drive, regardless of the disclaimer. Also, Hooba thinks that referring to yourself in the third person is for twats.

[Pepe]

I generally find your reviews a good read, but the little credibility that your "ratings" have get blown away when you rate a car you have yet to drive, regardless of the disclaimer. Also, Hooba thinks that referring to yourself in the third person is for twats.

+1 Pepe agrees...

For all the technical analysis and articles anyone wants to quote, it's completely subjective and everyone will have their own personal preference (and not need a 137 page thread to express it). Nothing will change that.

[REXman]

Coming to raw numbers, which seems to be what many of the harder core guys are interested in, even though it mainly involves going in straight line, which is boring for some - I managed to glean a rough estimate of average 400m DSG times of forum members at WSID for a stage 1 ECU Mark 6 GTI and stage 1 ECU Golf R:

GTI: 13.9 secs
R: 13.6 secs

In other words ... Sweet F.A. difference.

Actually WJ, 0.3 secs is a massive difference in acceleration terms to both 1/4 mile and 0-100km/h.

Perspective: An EVO does 0-100 in 5.35 seconds. A GOLF R does it in around 5.7.

The EVO is regarded as more hardcore machine than the GOLF R, not only in corners but also a straight line.

The STI is also about 0.3 quicker than a WRX.

a) At just a 100km/h, you are clearing 27.7 meters per second.

b) At 110km/h you are moving at 30.5 meters per second.

c) At 140km/h you are moving at 38.88 meters per second.

In the time it takes from a to b, In just that 10km/h difference, you have gained 3 meters.. or a ful car length ahead.

In the time it takes from b to c, you have gained around 8.3 meters (2 or 3 car lengths ahead).

There's some difference's to think about. Its clearly different. To people who dont care about acceleration data/performance.. no problem. My sister, mum and dad couldnt give a S.F about any of this stuff. But if your into it, the difference is there and very real.

[REXman]

On a completely seperate issue, as for the time difference between the GTI and R;
even if they were apparently 0.3 seconds appart in the quarter (STG 1)..and forgetting for a second the actual real difference in meters apart they would be in a race, there is also a difference in the way the power is delivered. I know you like getting technical WJ, so you'll enjoy this.

They are two different cars on a track, one being heavier (160kgs), the other lighter.. shows that R has a lot more power being generated hauling its chubbier ass along at a quicker rate.

The R is not only quicker.. its heavier.. and still quicker. And is quite an achievement in doing so.

[Footguy]

Love this thread....Have to chime in here...

The R is not only quicker.. its heavier.. and still quicker. And is quite an achievement in doing so.

Rexman, Yes the R is heavier, but its also also more powerful....Not really rocket science there...

Anyone lined up a Gti and R from a rolling start?? Would like to see how they compare without the advantage of 4wd...Guessing the R will pull away slightly as the 160kg is more than made up for in increased power...

There is a youtube vid of a stg1 GTi pulling slightly on a stock R from a rolling start...

(on a side note, I still remember motor mag did a 5.26 0-100km in a stock WRX (was the last of the original shapes before the bug eyed lot 99?)...It was legit, just done in perfect turbo conditions with no regard to mechanical sympathy

[Sammy125TDi]

Actually WJ, 0.3 secs is a massive difference in acceleration terms to both 1/4 mile and 0-100km/h.

Perspective: An EVO does 0-100 in 5.35 seconds. A GOLF R does it in around 5.7.

The EVO is regarded as more hardcore machine than the GOLF R, not only in corners but also a straight line.

The STI is also about 0.3 quicker than a WRX.

a) At just a 100km/h, you are clearing 27.7 meters per second.

b) At 110km/h you are moving at 30.5 meters per second.

c) At 140km/h you are moving at 38.88 meters per second.

In the time it takes from a to b, In just that 10km/h difference, you have gained 3 meters.. or a ful car length ahead.

In the time it takes from b to c, you have gained around 8.3 meters (2 or 3 car lengths ahead).

There's some difference's to think about. Its clearly different. To people who dont care about acceleration data/performance.. no problem. My sister, mum and dad couldnt give a S.F about any of this stuff. But if your into it, the difference is there and very real.

Correct, when dad and i ran our 13.3 and 13.6 respectively there was a full car length bwtween us and walking away (literally walking pace.)

[Footguy]

here it is...

Golf R pulls back the GTI's early jump at the end...Makes sense..

[Sammy125TDi]

Anyone lined up a Gti and R from a rolling start?? Would like to see how they compare without the advantage of 4wd...Guessing the R will pull away slightly as the 160kg is more than made up for in increased power...

wooduck and i have done this.... and like at the drags it was close but the R still moved away at about walking pace. I got the initial jump by coming on boost earlier as you would expect.

The top end of the K04 allows the R to keep making power to the redline whereas the K03 GTI power tapers off significantly after 5500-5800rpm. Despite the parasitic drag of the AWD system and extra weight, the R still trumps the GTI

[lavna]

For all you no drag racing people every 100 pounds you take out of your car
the car will run a tenth quicker over the quarter
also the drag strip gives you the true horse power reading a dino will tell you one thing but it doesnt matter on the strip your car will only do the times that equate to your horse power
half of the time people say they got great dino readings but the car cant back it up at the strip so the dino reading is wrong
and yes before you say that the day makes a big difference it does but go and do a few different days
i know what im talking about had a 10 second car back in 1999 rx3 turbo 13b with nitrous
Cheers

[break]

For all you no drag racing people every 100 pounds you take out of your car
the car will run a tenth quicker over the quarter
also the drag strip gives you the true horse power reading a dino will tell you one thing but it doesnt matter on the strip your car will only do the times that equate to your horse power
half of the time people say they got great dino readings but the car cant back it up at the strip so the dino reading is wrong
and yes before you say that the day makes a big difference it does but go and do a few different days
i know what im talking about had a 10 second car back in 1999 rx3 turbo 13b with nitrous
Cheers

Firstly, please locate the full stop and comma keys on your keyboard. From now on, please make use of them. The correct spelling is 'dyno', and please give us some more details on your apparent Rx3 (or was it an 808 with Rx3 front end like most of 'em?)

Second, ET's indicate nothing of the power of a car. The terminal speed is the only indicator of power you get from a drag race, and only once you factor in the weight of the car.

[REXman]

Oh no.. You actually went there.