Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Pepe]

Oh boy, here we go again...

Dunno about GTI owners, but I've had my Stage 1 tune for 4000km now and there's a definite improvement in driveability. Of course, you don't drive the R the same way as you would drive the GTI anyway, given the very different nature of the cars. But once you get over that fact (and stop banging on about one Vs the other without first hand experience), the R is a perfectly driveable car in any situation (it's just DIFFERENT and NOT identical to the GTI).

Just the other day on my way home from work, I was thinking how fantastic my R is in traffic (ie, comfortable, not temperamental, quick to respond to a suitable gap in traffic when required)... yet when I turned off and took the last few KM home via the back streets, it was a complete animal (all withint posted speed limits of course). The two key factors? Manual mode (+ S2TPP shifters) and ACC on Sport.

So, jump in an R expecting it to be a GTI on steriods and of course you'll be disappointed with the lag, etc. Actually drive an R for a bit (as opposed to reading/regurgitating internet based "conjecture") and evolve your driving style to match the car? You'll love it. I'm sure if I jumped in a GTI now and tried to drive it like a drive an R, I'd probably be sorely disappointed.

[triode12]

yet when I turned off and took the last few KM home via the back streets, it was a complete animal (all withint posted speed limits of course)

[stifled chuckle] Yeah right...

[Ideo]

I would just like to say that anyone complaining about lag hasn't driven many cars.

Done 2000kms in under 2 weeks in lots of different traffic and it is really not noticable.

[REXman]

I would just like to say that anyone complaining about lag hasn't driven many cars.

Done 2000kms in under 2 weeks in lots of different traffic and it is really not noticable.

Finally someone who speaks the truth!! My long time point on here.. people talk about the R like its got a custom T04 on it.. the R is incredibly capable even at low RPMs for a turbo, compared to a lot of cars.. even STI and EVOs.

[Angryman]

X2

As a former traffic copper with 13 years on the road I've driven heaps of different vehicles and after 16000km in the R I'm yet to find this lag being spoken of

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[triode12]

x3
If you want to know what lag is on a Golf, test drive a stock Pirelli.
The lag on the R is nothing, esp after a Stg1 tune.

[Sammy125TDi]

x3
If you want to know what lag is on a Golf, test drive a stock Pirelli.
The lag on the R is nothing, esp after a Stg1 tune.

x4

Lag is what my Series 5 RX7 used to be... 13b turbo, T04-66.. 100rwkw @ 4000 rpm. 385 rwkw @ 6500 rpm

[Ideo]

Even my other car (S3 in Sig) running the stock KO4 but with some other mods is a hell of a lot more laggy.

The first thing I thought when I drove the R was how tractable at all RPM it was for a turbo 4.

What. People are expecting V8 like torque from 1000rpm from a turbo 4?

[bwen]

People saying that the k04 is 'laggy', the JCW Mini Cooper also runs a k04 on a 1.6L and it's not even that bad. I guess those people haven't driven other small displacement turbocharged cars i.e. evo & sti

[parso_rex]

IMO its not turbo lag at all, looking at flow rates the K04 isn't really that much bigger than a K03. Compared to other turbos its quite small. I believe the issue is DBW and delays deliberately configured in the tune & I can think of a couple of reasons why they'd do it too. Many manufacturers do this these days.

[WhiteJames]

I'd go for the Golf 118TSI Supercharged/Turbocharged as a strictly daily inner city/peak hour commuter. The S/C removes that bit of lag under 2,000rpm that is present in the GTI, making it easier to live with. The power delivery is also more linear. The GTI is the pick for a combo of city & country driving. The Golf R for long distance touring. The article I posted earlier sheds light on manifold design & exhaust turbo scavenging effects. Many with Golf R are looking at turbo exhaust downpipes to alter the turbine gas flow and broaden the torque & power bands in an effort to improve driveability. The MKV Pirelli GTI with KO4 turbo is a good example: It suffers from lag and does not perfrom any better than the newer EA888 smaller KO3 turbo motor MK6 GTI, despite having higher power & torque figures. The manifold & exhaust scavenging may have someting to do with this.
Cheers
WJ

[Capercat]

Don't want to pop this forum's lag bubble, personally I've always felt the S3, Golf R, Pirelli have terrible lag irrespective of compassions with Jap cars or ECU flashes.
Now, how do I explain to the guy at work who bought his first VW (golf R) and complains as he describes as "power hesitation" lol. Do i act dumb and say, try driving an EVO?
I could just quote WJ's above post, but might risk scaring him.

[triode12]

Don't want to pop this forum's lag bubble, personally I've always felt the S3, Golf R, Pirelli have terrible lag irrespective of compassions with Jap cars or ECU flashes.
Now, how do I explain to the guy at work who bought his first VW (golf R) and complains as he describes as "power hesitation" lol. Do i act dumb and say, try driving an EVO?
I could just quote WJ's above post, but might risk scaring him.

Rocco, have you driven a tuned R/S3/Pirelli before?

[SilvrFoxX]

Well there are a number of answers but I still think it comes down to expectation.. it is a 4 cylinder with a turbo bolted on, you want linear torque curve then buy a v8. The other issue may well be it is a DSG which again has to be driven differently to a standard auto.

[Sammy125TDi]

I'd go for the Golf 118TSI Supercharged/Turbocharged as a strictly daily inner city/peak hour commuter. The S/C removes that bit of lag under 2,000rpm that is present in the GTI, making it easier to live with. The power delivery is also more linear. The GTI is the pick for a combo of city & country driving. The Golf R for long distance touring. The article I posted earlier sheds light on manifold design & exhaust turbo scavenging effects. Many with Golf R are looking at turbo exhaust downpipes to alter the turbine gas flow and broaden the torque & power bands in an effort to improve driveability. The MKV Pirelli GTI with KO4 turbo is a good example: It suffers from lag and does not perfrom any better than the newer EA888 smaller KO3 turbo motor MK6 GTI, despite having higher power & torque figures. The manifold & exhaust scavenging may have someting to do with this.
Cheers
WJ

Personally, i think the newer, improved EA888 TSI is simply better off boost. I've driven both the GTI and R back to back, both with tunes and the GTI has more grunt off boost (observed with a boost gauge) than the R. This would definitely contribute to the better response of the K03.

I'll be able to comment further when i have my K04 installed on to the EA888 TSI this week. And when the sydney dyno day comes around i'll be able to lay the two readings over each other.