Golf R 3 door/5 door speculation/information thread

[hooba]

Fair point, however I've been in a borla equipped Cayman and it does sound as good as this video. Yum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj5mo9GAZyc

[shakespeare]

Hey Shakespeare! So thinking of saying goodbye to the 6? I tell you now, I haven't regretted buying my R after the MPS 6 for 1 minute. Even if mine is the R36 variety not the Golf... Be good to have you onboard if you come over to the dark side LOL...

Cheers mate sorry for OT, but I test drove an R36 wagon recently and still like that idea too (love the sound of the motor!), not in a hurry so will wait for an R to arrive then make my decision, tossing up between space or a smaller/lighter beast :shrug: Will keep hangin' out on the dark side and reading up in the meantime

[WhiteJames]

The new Ford Fiesta XR with 1.6 litre turbo motor should be a cracker. Lighter with greater economy than the Golf GTI/Golf R. Looks ten times better than the VW Polo imo. Ford has come a long way in recent years, esp in chassis dynamics. The new Fiesta turbo 1.6 would be a contender for me. Only exception is that I refuse to purchase a vehicle without a centre armrest. Otherwise Fiesta is all good. My very first vehicle, a Ford Laser, had less rattles than my MKV GTI. Also like the Mini Cooper S 1.6 turbo, but too compact & not practical or roomy enough.

In respect to drivability, my old MKV GTI, the new MK6 GTI and AWD R32 (read Golf R) behaved in very differently. Putting MKV GTI with aftermarket suspension (KW V3 and H&R bars) pivoted on its centre axis in turns with plenty of initial slip (yaw rate) into the turn, which made it hugely satisfying but a cruder to drive. The new MK6 GTI with XDS offers pleasantly refined slight to mild understeer that doesn’t really get your heart racing, but is safe & secure. XDS is surreal on medium to faster corners pulling the interior front wheel inwards for a tight exit & limiting understeer. At low speeds the XDS can be a nuisance in that it slows the rate of travel, but this is moreso apparent on very tight roundabouts. Having said that, XDS is tuned to be proactive, rather than reactive, which is a huge plus for the Mark GTI over the MKV GTI and AWD vehicles, esp in mid corner as evident in the ‘CAR ADVICE.com.au’ GTI –v- WRX comparison. The R32 (R) with Generation III Haldex Controller is a different kettle of fish in that it is still tuned for understeer, but with superb grip levels and a tangible shuffling of drive rewards ... makes it easy to drive fast almost fool-proof. AWD does require more maintenance in the longer run with 30k oil changes on the Haldex System. All three are fun in different ways. Best to drive the GTI & R on same roadway back to back as a gauge. This is what I and my neighbour may do.

One reason for posting in this thread is that not only I, but my neighbour are both looking at both the Golf R and GTI. My neighbour also looking at the Audi A5 Hatchback for around 100k and owns a R32 DSG he purchased after driving my Golf GTI around some challenging roadways. He wanted the best Golf money could buy, but after 18 months, he sort of became bored with the R32 and AWD, even after adding H&R sway bars & Haldex Gen II controller to dial out the factory induced understeer. That fun element seemed to be missing in the R32 compared to his previous ride - 330kW HDT Monaro / 7K Harrop BBK, Racing Clutch / Shorter Ratio LSD / HDT spoilers-wheels etc (Genuine 12 sec ¼ mile ride). He did consider a full APR exhaust / intake / ECU tune on his R32, but the gains were not to be had.

My neighbour friend was raving about the Golf R for 12 months prior to release, but like me, has been left a bit deflated, but for different reasons. I prefer to go touring with my rides with few modifications and place a greater weight on economy, ride/handling perfection & tractability which involves old school SAAB like low boost low down instant turbo thrust. My neighbour likes customising his rides while at the same time places greater weight on his rides ‘looking’ the part & going real hard.

Over our weekly Latte we talk shop aka GTI –v- Golf R –v- Audi A5. My neighbour being an R32 owner sights the following issues he has with the Golf R based on his experience with the R32:

1. Excess weight over GTI; not much lighter than the Audi A5 Quattro.
2. EA113 motor may be ditched for newer EA888 motor mid life.
3. Street racers/ricers hassling him constantly for a get-up & go; esp after a long day at work, which is the last thing he wants (neither of us condone street racing) – hence the step up to a mature & discreet looking Audi A5. The ricer following 1 foot away from his rear bumper occurs often when in his R32, but was rarely an issue with his Monster Monaro for some reason. It may be the bright blue paintjob?
4. Harsh ride of R32 – Golf R will be similar in ride as early reports state (even with ACC?).
5. Prosaic generic looks – remember they have to look the part & well as go hard for him.
6. May still be missing that fun factor, despite any amount of tuning (remember he owned a 330kW RWD Monaro with closer ratio LSD).

My neighbour is still keener on the Golf R than I am; but not by much. He has plenty of time to test drive unlike me (Nov 10) and price not an issue for him – his Golf R or GTI will be fully loaded he tells me, with more APR tuning to come as a hobby of his. He takes his tuning seriously, ensuring that all aspects of his ride are improved for any substantial increase in power (i.e. anything above stage I) as often required (saves on defect notices). If he takes the GTI route, first port of call is the brakes (Golf R/Brembo/AP Racing) and maybe wheels/tyres.

Me? About the only mods I’m considering is a set of mudflaps to keep the under-sills clear of any tar. Point is: you have two people considering the same vehicles, but with very different motives with the same difficulty in making a decision. We keep using the GTI as a base for comparison, but are having difficulty seeing the extra value in the other offerings. Everything is relative as Einstein said.

Cheers
WJ

[dave_r]

Ford has come a long way in recent years, esp in chassis dynamics.

Ford doesn't deserve a look in no matter what in this country as their dealer network are nothing short of farken useless. Pray the car is 100% from day 1 until you get rid of it or be sorry IMO.

Point is: you have two people considering the same vehicles, but with very different motives with the same difficulty in making a decision. We keep using the GTI as a base for comparison, but are having difficulty seeing the extra value in the other offerings. Everything is relative as Einstein said.

You make some interesting points but at the same time really take the fun out of a new car! You're analysing to the nth degree and it becomes a choice made purely by the brain. May as well all be driving camrys or something equally suicidal.

[WhiteJames]

In respect to trading the R32 in for a Golf R, I've pointed out to my neighbourly friend that for the type of driving he is doing atm, predominately city-metro trips, the R32 would be more aptly suited. Reason being is that the R32 has all that low end responsive grunt with nothing much above 4500rpm. Perfect for city commuting. The Golf R will definetly be faster, but also a bit laggy down low with a stronger top end. Different story when he was commuting intercity with up to an 1 hour on the freeway - Golf R in this respect would perform that task just nicely.

On a slight tangent, the establishment of the 'R' Division GmbH in Germany appears to be an attempt by the factory to cash in on the aftermarket tuning business which has flourished in recent years. 'R' division offering sports seats, upgraded brakes, aftermarket wheels, carbon fibre look good bits, perhaps even factory sanctioned coilovers could prove lucrative for Volkswagen. BMW and AMG are going the same way, cashed up buyers looking to personalise their ride.

Agree with Dave on the standard of the Ford Service Dept. Hopefully they will improve in this respect also. Ford is catching up in the motor dept, if only slowly. The 1.6 litre motor in the Fiesta should rear its head in the Falcon as a 2.0 litre turbo and Focus in the near future. Who knows, they may even start building the motor locally.

Cheers
WJ

[dave_r]

In respect to trading the R32 in for a Golf R, I've pointed out to my neighbourly friend that for the type of driving he is doing atm, predominately city-metro trips, the R32 would be more aptly suited.

If I already had an R32, I'm not sure I'd be in a hurry to upgrade. Well I would, but only because I don't like keeping a car much more than 2-3yrs. But they are a great car, maybe he should hold out for something like the RS3 or similar which would be the natural progression. I don't know how far away they are but the TT-RS package in a nicer shell is an easy sell!

Agree with Dave on the standard of the Ford Service Dept. Hopefully they will improve in this respect also.... Who knows, they may even start building the motor locally.

Trust me, they won't improve. I could fill a book with absolutely stupid stories regarding this. I've had 4 brand new locally made cars over the past 8 years and every one of them has had serious issues. I don't expect anything mass produced to be 100% perfect, but how a company deals with issues after the fact is what makes them different.

Anyway back to the R... when I head into the dealer today to order a Polo for the missus, I'm going to have a chat about swapping my leather option to the buckets. It just clicked that if you add the price of the leather and electric seat option, its nearly $4k, so the buckets aren't that much more. I'd be loosing lumbar and electric adjustment so what the hell hehe. My only stiplation will be that I need them to find me an R32 or S3 that I can test drive for at least 30mins to see if I can live with them given it will be a daily driver (~50kms a day plus w/e trips).

[WhiteJames]

We've discussed the Audi TT and variations of this model. One of my other neighours has the first generation TT and it looks very dated. We've both of the opinion that while the Audi TT looks fab atm as a contemporary work of art, once the new or newer model arrives, odd contemporary shapes age very quickly. The other Audi's and VW's style has a certain blandness about it that ages much better. Atm we're both happy to stay with VAG for next or next few rides.

Recaro seats are great. I've done a few reviews travelling @ 30-50kms and found them snug, but never uncomfortable. They will limit room to move, but much better than the standard leather seats. I went for cloth on my MK6 GTI order as its an in-between for lateral support - leather's not much good in this regard. Leather the same or very similar seat across the VW models - one size fits all approach. Problem with Recaros is that they do not come with side airbags (well not in the MKV Golf R32). I'm big on safety. No one looks for crashes, but you only get once chance at crashing. Another anoyance, only minor annoyance on the 3 door Golf in particular, is that it's a bit of a reach for the seat belt as the Recaro wraps around your shoulder. It's something that I could live with; although safety still takes precedence.

Cheers.
WJ

[Tim]

In regards to the safety aspect of recaros.
Has anyone actually done a comparison between the protection you would get by the extra bolstering on the recaros compared to the side airbag of the standard seat? I think id rather be strapped in tightly to a seat that could potentially offer more protection to start off with.

Keep in mind the car will still have the curtain airbags.

Im not saying that my opinion is more informed than anyone elses. I could be completely wrong. I am curious though.

[Caillin]

In regards to the safety aspect of recaros.

I'm with you there Tim. Recaro's are widely used in a significant amount of motorsport. Obviously there are differences between the models of seats, but Recaro's definitely hold you snugger than factory seats at the expensive of a little bit of comfort.

I know I'll be optioning them for sure. Once you've owned a car with them, it's really hard to go back. Especially if you like to attack your nearest set of bends frequently

[Corey_R]

There a HUUUUUUGE distinct difference between 'driver safety theory' in motorsport vs the road though. In motorsport, it's all about the driver NOT MOVING at all during a crash. They're strapped in with 5 or more point harnesses, which go over both sholders and over the HANS device, which prevents the head from moving forward or too far to the sides etc. In a road car, it's about the driver being 'gently restrained' - letting the drive decelerate slowly against the airbag....

So I think that it's a difficult thing to say whether a recaro seat without airbags in a safer option in a road car than the regular GTI/R seats with their airbags.

Personally, I find the standard GTI / R seats to be very supportive and also more comfortable than the Recaros.
The other thing I don't like about the Recaros is their cost. So far it has been stated that they'll be $5300. If that really is what they cost, that will mean that 'on the road' they'll actually really add $7234.50! That's an awful lot for a pair of seats (which may or may not be more comfortable, and may or may not be safer).

[Tim]

As I mentioned im not qualified to comment. But maybe being cocooned in a seat like recaro isnt such a bad place to be. Dont forget that modern cars have seat belt pre-tensioners that will hopefully secure you in the seat in case of an accident.

having said that. If safety is a major deciding factor in purchasing a car then you should be looking at something not so quick. You will be much less likely to get yourself into trouble.

[Corey_R]

Nah - I think that the Golf R is a safe place to be no matter which seat you get. I'm just not so sure that the fact that recaro type seats are used in motorsport is justification for saying that they're safer, being the many other differences between road car safety and race car safety.

But as I said, the fact that they're less comfortable and possibly $7k+ additional makes the choice easy for me

[Tim]

Nah - I think that the Golf R is a safe place to be no matter which seat you get.

depends who is driving !

[somobo]

Golf R now on VWA website.

Just a register for more info button.

[Caillin]

I didn't mean to imply that they were safer, more so that due to widespread use in motorsport, they can't be that much worse. I'm sure if they were, then their NCAP rating would have to adjust? Good point on the LCT on top of the $5300, makes it a very expensive proposition. Wonder how many people will tick that box.