Tigger73's Scirocco R

[Dutch77]

Agreed, and so the list keeps growing and contracting as time goes by.

[Tobes_WIR35]

Is that a car swap or a wife swap???

Haha, I'd need to take that question on notice and do some enquiries

[Tobes_WIR35]

I think you'll find that the Golf options although quite competent are a little less inspiring.

The Scirocco is certainly more of an "event" to drive and a lot more special than a run of the mill Golf. It is also a bit more dated in terms of tech... but you can't have everything I suppose.

Totally agree. I loved my mk6 GTI, but the Scirocco is a much more emotive drive. Similarly, I test drove the mk7 R, and although it is faster, more refined, more tech etc, I still chose the Roc, largely because it had what the Golf didn't - uniqueness, sex appeal and a more raw driving experience. I will always have a soft spot for Golfs but unless they bring out a 3 door Golf R400 or something like that, I don't think I'll get another one, they are just a bit too vanilla.

[Dutch77]

Understand completely - although my Mk6 GTI was probably one of my favourites (and I'm not alone in this sentiment I believe). Maybe it was just my intro to Euro after a diet of Australian/Japanese cars.

I also know you're not alone with your thoughts on a Roc over a Mk7 R.

Right now in the world's most bizarre search for a weekend car that suits Dutch's needs I can say the Roc has survived to the next round, and as for Golfs it appears to be an ED30 or ED40. Yes this is the list that also has an RS5 on it, don't ask..

[Sharkie]

To go for a V8 that has (once the exhaust is upgraded) awesome sound, with what seems to be pretty bullet proof mechanicals with lots and lots of tuning options (relatively cheaply), I'd say ditch the Euros and go American ..... sounds like blasphemy I know, but for a guy who has had 13 VWs and 6 BMWs over the years, my Mustang GT has been a revelation.

I love it, it goes hard, sounds awesome and looks like car porn ....

Easy 400kw in it normally aspirated or 700kw with some forced induction. Lack of traction (even stock) is not a problem, it adds character and excitement.

No Sirocco will give you the same performance or thrills I dare say ....

[Dutch77]

Thanks Sharkie - I was actually tempted to reach out for your (potentially biased!) thoughts on the issue.

This will almost certainly be a weekend cruiser, so the V8 option holds appeal. Is your 2017 still the 'gen 1' version or the newer version? I'm lazy so I haven't got around to refreshing on the reviews, but some of the early cars that are well into the 40s are of interest to me, as this also is the price point now of some of the older German V8 metal (RS5/M3/C63).

I'm an original Commodore guy so grew up on a diet of six and eight cylinders, so swapping to 'the dark side' is an odd decision to make and I am not sure I am ready - but I always respect the Ford cars, especially the turbo six era, and think the Mustang looks great. Trouble is Camaro is way out of range, Monaro is too old and an SSV just a bit to run of the mill even if it became a great bit of kit by the time production wound up - the money is now sitting in Mrs Dutch's car.

Somehow the plethora of SEQ freeways seems tailor made for a Mustang though..

As the OP of this thread will attest, the umm short list.. is not short.

[Tobes_WIR35]

I test drove a Mustang GT when I was in the market for my Scirocco. To be honest it didn't do much for me. I didn't like the driving position and visibility over the bonnet was pretty bad. Not very nimble. Sometimes I borrow my in-laws FG XR6 ute, and to me the Mustang kinda felt like that. That said, I had one for a while when I was road tripping around the USA and found it a really good touring car, comfy, big, and cool. They are a very cool looking car. So I guess it depends what you're looking for. They are very good value compared to the offensively over-priced HSV Camaro.

[Sharkie]

As a point of reference, a 2017 GT (stock) is 2s a lap quicker around Winton (in the hands of a professional driver) than a Mk7 Golf R (in the hands of the same driver) ..... that sets the scene on what it is capable of.

For normal people it is harder to extract the extra 2/10ths as you have to get used to the weight it carries along and you have to learn how hard you can lean on the tyres which is incidentally much harder than what I have been comfortable with traditionally.

The long bonnet makes placement (on a track) hard, and in Brisbane the top corner at Lakeside is near impossible as you cannot see the bend properly. Its brakes (6-pot Brembos) are simply 10x better than the stock Golf R brakes. Once you warm the tyres up (the P-Zeros are a bit lacking when cold) traction is actually amazing.

I love my VW's and the R is amazing, but none (except maybe my turbo Mk1) gave me the same thrill as the Mustang. It is a true muscle car with a heart and soul. These are sometimes lacking in modern VWs .... I smile every time I get in the Mustang and I find that a rare thing these days, regardless of the cost of the car.

NOTE: This will probably be my last (and only)Ford, unless I can get a new GT500 Mustang or maybe for nostalgia's sake an old 65-67 Mustang as a project.

No offence, but a Scirocco always felt like a fit, but funny looking GTI to me. I have driven a manual R a number times years ago but decided to go another route then (Amarok).

Further Edit: Don't get me wrong, the Mustang is a terrible commuter, so best to get it for the open road or as a weekend toy. I originally commuted my GT daily for about 4 months then bought another Golf to do the job as the Mustang (and I in it) hated the commute. It needs room to move and make noise ....

[Dutch77]

Thanks for the feedback guys - very insightful, and always interesting to get competing points of view.

When I was a young chap my old man got a XF Falcon as a company ride (in cream no less with a gingerbread interior - they don't make 'em like this anymore) and I was so upset as a fan of the General I literally refused to open my eyes for about the first six weeks going in it. So the fact I have a Mustang genuinely now on my short/long list is a major thing.

I 100% get the feeling thing - there is something about a V8 (or an Audi five pot as it turns out for me) that makes each drive a bit of an event. I haven't got that from my last couple of Dubs.

Having said that I am still sitting on the fence between a bit of a smaller hot-hatch/coupe, or an old school V8 'GT'. Thus I've still got the R32, ED35, ED40, Roc and 135i coupe, M135i hatch, M235i coupe on one end of the list against the V8 brigade - RS5, M3, C63 and of course Mustang. Told you all it was a weird list (and yes I am well aware this group covers a spread of prices, I haven't firmed the budget just yet lol).

[Tobes_WIR35]

I'd be willing to give the Mustang another shot, I do love the look of them. A guy in my building had a slightly modded one, red with big black wheels and some extra fiberglass, lowered with a nice exhaust. It is a very horny looking (and sounding) car. A second hand GT manual can be had for low to mid $40k which is pretty good value!

[Dutch77]

I'd be buying it for the V8, they are shaping up as good buying second hand - the magic number seems to be about $50k for a 2017 with minimal mileage, or as you said low to mid $40k for the earlier 2015-2016 cars.

My thought process shall continue.

[Sharkie]

I'd be buying it for the V8, they are shaping up as good buying second hand - the magic number seems to be about $50k for a 2017 with minimal mileage, or as you said low to mid $40k for the earlier 2015-2016 cars.

My thought process shall continue.

Like all cars, the Mustang has had a couple of teething problems for the Aus market given its the 1st RHD Mustang ever built in the factory.

The early cars 2015 up to mid 2016 has the Sync 2 radio system which is clunky to use and slow. From mid 2016 onwards Sync 3 came out (still current today) and is actually pretty good.

The biggest issue is that due to the RHD build the headers are different to the LHD cars, which means you cannot simply buy headers (and there is 30kw to be found in good headers) from the USA. What this also means is that the oil cooler (oil/water cooler) sits close to the RH header and in the early models 2015 to mid 2016, this lead to failures of the welds leading to burst coolers, leading shortly thereafter to total engine failure. From late 2016 onwards upgraded oil coolers were fitted by the factory and is available a free refit to older cars (like a recall but quietly ). Aftermarket oil cooler solutions are available that totally removes this as an issue and I plan to fit 1 soon even though I have a Feb 2017 build (on my son's birthday actually) car.

So if you are shopping early cars, ask if the cooler has been replaced (or even the engine, which is done under warranty no questions asked), otherwise look at cars built from about Oct 2016 onwards.

It looks like the Mustangs are holding their value much better than the Golf R secondhand. For cars that cost the same new (more or less) the difference 2nd hand looks like at least $10,000 on average.

[Whatsisname]

Lack of traction in a powerful RWD platform is fun for a little while but the novelty factor wears as quickly as the rear tyres do. I speak from years of experience. The Racelogic TC and LC was the best upgrade I've made to my R33 in recent years. The car has all the suspension upgrades, Nismo GT-Pro differential, and 265/35/18 AO50 semi-slicks. With the Racelogic off there is no point trying to use full throttle below 4th gear. With it on the car is transformed from untamed animal to almost completely controllable.

[Lucas_R]

Lack of traction in a powerful RWD platform is fun for a little while but the novelty factor wears as quickly as the rear tyres do. I speak from years of experience. The Racelogic TC and LC was the best upgrade I've made to my R33 in recent years. The car has all the suspension upgrades, Nismo GT-Pro differential, and 265/35/18 AO50 semi-slicks. With the Racelogic off there is no point trying to use full throttle below 4th gear. With it on the car is transformed from untamed animal to almost completely controllable.

550rwkw in a car that was never intended to have anywhere near that much power will always its drawbacks in regards to traction. Also being a relatively old platform it would not have even had a factory traction control built into the ecu. Im sure the Racelogic has transformed the way the car drives in low gears.

My Lexus IS-F only has 265kw atw but with grippy 275 wide tyres on the rear and a relatively sophisticated traction control system (plus factory LSD) it gets off the line swiftly and consistently each time. It would be interesting to see how the factory traction control would cope if i added another 150-150rwkw with a supercharger or turbo kit.

[Whatsisname]

I have upgraded absolutely everything with the aim of making the car driveable and maximizing grip. It has the works. I can open the throttle in 2nd at 60km/h and the RL does it's thing (plus diff' and suspension and Yokohama AO50s etc) and it will put as much power down as the surface permits.

Decent semi-slicks certainly help. The AR1s and LCAs made a huge difference to my Roc.

The linear power delivery of the IS-F's 5.0L is certainly more conducive to maintaining traction.