TurboXS Dump Pipe and Recode Tuning for Golf R

[zbeasty]

Good discussion, hopefully it stays civil.

Zbeasty, I know you did a few runs at WSID with the APR DP and tune at the time. Have you managed to get back out here with the TurboXS DP being the only difference? One would expect that the power gains being talked about would translate directly to better times/mph?

Unfortunately WSID has been closed for the last 6 weeks or so and I didn't get a chance before that. I'll be out there as soon as I can but am having some other mods done this week which will change the results anyway.

[parso_rex]

I have yet another R coming next week and this will be at our workshop so I'll keep track of what's happening along the way. Most of the time I have the end result in mind not the stuff in between and Zbeasts car with the mandatory APR pump (credit where due) should be alot better in the bottom end with the tune now being able to take advantage of the new pumps abilities.

[Guy_H]

Guy

No engineering or plumbing (fluid dynamics) credentials here but I am a bean counter so know how to use formuals. We were doing logs when I ran the numbers so I'll see if I can get IAT, EGT, MAF, MAP and AFR readings to do an exhaust flow calc at peak power. I'll have to make some assumptions about volumetric efficiency but I should be able to get a close enough number. I'll then have to ask either VW or Borg Warner what the pressure differential across the turbine is at that flow rate then I should be able to work out the exit speed of the exhaust gas from the turbine. I'll also need to know how far the wastegate is open at that point so I can work out cross sectional area and therefore the increase in pressure of the exhaust gas as it flows from the exhaust manifold through the wastegate and therefore increases speed. Then we can compare turbine exit speed with wastegate exit speed. I assume that there is a difference but how much (or how little) I don't know.

Ultimately though it is a combination of exhaust gas volume and speed that will affect performance not just the speed with which it is exiting the turbo. If you can't get all of the gas out it will increase back pressure and the ability of the turbo to spool. If you don't think the big section of flat plate in the middle of the outlet on the divorced design is reducing flow then we have a difference of opinion. I don't have the APR DP in my possession but I'll measure the cross sectional area of the twin pipes and see if it matches or exceeds the cross sectional area of the single pipe next time I'm at the workshop. I'll also be able to tell you what the diameter of the red circle is because it approximates the pipe on the other side of the flange. If you have a set of calipers handy and a pipe in stock you could probably tell us much faster though. The reason for boosting faster against the standard set up is that the factory 800 cell cat that sits at the exit is much more restrictive than the APR DP its just that the TXS DP is even less restrictive.

The other point you need to remember is that given this motor has electronic boost control the wastegate should only be open when it is trying to control the boost. If you aren't making the desired boost then there will be no wastegate gas flow to interrupt the flow from the turbine.

As to gains it was 201kw TXS vs 181kw APR which is 20kw or 27hp on my car. My car was never dynoed with just a tune so I don't know what it made therefore I can't comment about gains vs stg 1. My stock dyno run however was 150kw so I had a 30kw increase with your DP and the Recode tune. Does that sound about right for a Stg2 car? At the Sydney dyno day Lima's APR Stg1 S3 made 179kw and my car made 198kw with the APR DP and this tune. That is a 19kw difference which is slightly more than 15hp. The other APR 2+ car on the day also made 198kw (althought he has a Milltek exhaust). My car might just be a freak of nature and produces good numbers but they are repeatable. It did the 181kw or there abouts with the APR DP and this tune on a couple of different days on the same dyno. I've only run it once with the TXS DP but I'm confident it would produce the same numbers (201kw or there abouts) on that dyno.

As for sales in other countries, what design do APR US use for their K04 cars? Are they going to be borrowing your design once the R is released there later this year/early next year?

By the way Guy I am not having a go at the quality of your product or anything. You came to market with something that has been seen to work on other designs and should in theory work well. The design of the K04 however does not suit the divorced downpipe because the turbine exit is partially shrouded by the housing and you can't get a large enough pipe to match the size of the turbine exit and the flow requirements. If you could modify the housing on the K04 so that you could use the same design DP as used in the Stg3 kit then I'm sure that the power differences wouldn't be as great as they are now.

Please send us all the data logs so we can compare

We were doing logs when I ran the numbers so I'll see if I can get IAT, EGT, MAF, MAP and AFR readings to do an exhaust flow calc at peak power

these logs will be perfect, also WG duty cycle is a pretty critical one to look at- Oh, you conveniently also forgot to mention that we use a 200 cell metal cat, not a 100 cell cat (as you already mentioned, they flow differently).

You can add the data logs to the forum as attachments, then everyone has access to compare how the results differ & we can find that magical 27hp at the wheels gain!

Can you arrange for a Turbo XS pipe for our testing (as I have already offered to pay for one) ???

[parso_rex]

I've talked about the necessary changes to wastegate duty cycle tables in a previous post. No one gets to see the logs well not from me anyway however Zbeast is free to share once tuning is complete if he so desires - sorry no free rides here, besides I could have just doctored them to suit ! Seriously...
I don't think TXS would take you up on your offer either I can't even get a free one. Check the claims on their site - quite realistic.

[zbeasty]

Please send us all the data logs so we can compare these logs will be perfect, also WG duty cycle is a pretty critical one to look at- Oh, you conveniently also forgot to mention that we use a 200 cell metal cat, not a 100 cell cat (as you already mentioned, they flow differently).

You can add the data logs to the forum as attachments, then everyone has access to compare how the results differ & we can find that magical 27hp at the wheels gain!

Can you arrange for a Turbo XS pipe for our testing (as I have already offered to pay for one) ???

James at Turbo XS is the man to speak to if you want to purchase one of their pipes. How he would feel about selling to one of his competitors I don't know.

Parso has the logs and he has said he isn't prepared to share at the moment. Given it is his IP that is in the tunes I can understand that. If he makes the logs available to me once we're finished and he is happy for me to post I will do so. I don't have VAGCOM so I can't do my own and if I did would ask Mark's permission before posting anywhere.

By the way I'm as surprised as anyone by the results. I knew the car felt stronger after fitting the new DP but they didn't have time to run on the dyno. I took the day off work just to be there when it did go on and see the results.

[Lucas_R]

On a slightly different note.........is anyone else running the Turbo XS dump pipe on their Golf R yet? Im keen to buy a dump pipe/hi flow cat combo in the next few weeks and would like some feedback on the Turbo XS product. Unfortunately, i cant justify the cost of the APR dump pipe.

Someone else also mentioned a few pages back that Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney have a custom dump pipe option for the Golf R. is anyone using this? Or perhaps another option from another custom exhaust manufacturer such as Hi-Tech Mufflers?

[D_Mag]

Myself and 2 mates all bought dump pipes from Liverpool for our MPS's. Within 6 months they all cracked. Their service was good, but yeah, pulling dumps off isn't fun especially with an MPS.
Even though I'm in Melbourne, I get great service from James at TXS and have used TurboXs products in my last few cars.
I'll be buying one when my R arrives.

[Lucas_R]

Cool - thanks. I had a complete turbo back XForce exhaust on my previous car over a period of about 8 years / 80,000km or so and never had one single issue with it. Great quality, looked and sounded great. XForce make an exhaust for the Mk5 GTI but have nothing for the Mk6 GTi or R - which is a shame as i would definitely consider buying from them again.

http://www.xforce.com.au/products.php

Might look into the Turbo XS option more closely and give the shop a call next week.

Myself and 2 mates all bought dump pipes from Liverpool for our MPS's. Within 6 months they all cracked. Their service was good, but yeah, pulling dumps off isn't fun especially with an MPS.
Even though I'm in Melbourne, I get great service from James at TXS and have used TurboXs products in my last few cars.
I'll be buying one when my R arrives.

[KRA21E]

Just like to share with everyone Mark's (ReCode) result of the first tune on my car...202.4kw atw with a very nicely manufactured TurboXS dump pipe...Mark, since you have the Dyno printout, do you want to post it up?

I have to say, the car is extremely smooth in it's power delivery and boy does it become ferrel on boost!!! LOL

Can't wait to tweak that up a little as discussed, parts are on their way!

Guys, all i have to say is that Mark's service, care and attention to detail is second to none!!

On a side note, did i mention how much Mark loves tree's?? (sorry mate, it's my duty to be a smartass!)

[parso_rex]

Still a bit to go once we do the RS4 and actuator

I would put up an overlay of Zbeasts plot to show the difference that the bigger FMIC makes but as our dyno reads about 4~5 kw less than the other two he might get a bit cut

[PTW]

Good results Mark. What boost are you running thru the range? Any cam timing done?

[zbeasty]

I would put up an overlay of Zbeasts plot to show the difference that the bigger FMIC makes but as our dyno reads about 4~5 kw less than the other two he might get a bit cut

Post away Mark. It will show where the pump and FMIC make a difference. Didn't Goran's car do 160kw with the pump and FMIC with no tune or exhaust?

[parso_rex]

Post away Mark. It will show where the pump and FMIC make a difference. Didn't Goran's car do 160kw with the pump and FMIC with no tune or exhaust?

163 actually I think its in that plot above if I chose the correct file, yeah it was pretty good in fact the best I have seen. When I overlayed your two the bottom end was almost a prefect copy which I'm a tiny bit confused about atm, I have to sit down and have a good look at it. I'lll be keen to see what sort of improvement we get with yours in fact both cars once they have the intercooling and fueling mods done. $$ wise yours is killing everyone so far. We need to get someone here supplying the RS4 valves and possibly the THS intercoolers I'm half tempted to do it myself. I think we are going to shift to a sort of standard platform for the 200+ tunes just to keep everything super stable and to minimise multiple files - Yes I'm feeling lazy. A bit of Research required here though.
We have an S3 coming and a nice R with motorsport seats (p0rn) and a full exhaust and the rest so it will be a good one too.

PTW I 'll send you some info via PM, its good to see yet another Subi face here, everyone is jumping ship LOL


*Something I forgot to mention above. When ordering the TXS Dump be sure to pay the extra $30~40 for the additional wideband 02 bung. Its will save you a heap of hassle if you're thinking of ever installing your own sensor for AFR guages or even EGT sensors etc.
Got to split........

Cheers

Mark

[KRA21E]

Gentlemen,

Im going to be buying in the RS4 Return Valve and the Forge Wastegate Actuator. I anyone interested before i place the order? If so, let me know and i will see what i can organise.

Cheers,

Goran.

Btw...I have discovered a fantastic side effect to having the Golf tuned...now when there are people in the car getting a little too vocal, all i have to do is give it a hit and as soon as it comes on boost everyone goes quiet!!! Absolutely invaluable for a peaceful relationship!

[Large Fruit]

Is there really any benefit to this?

I know it increases the pressure to 136pse vs 130psi but what does that do for power? Do i get more power?

Can you post the link? I might grab one for the S3 (that's the one Mark is working on in his post above) but i'll order myself as i live in whoop whoop.