APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

[logger]

Wandering back to the orginal topic

APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

I reckon my car is down on power since the 24S4 Service Campaign and having the APR stage I tune reloaded.

There is a long hill on a highway that I regularly drive up. The cars has been up it perhaps 50 times. Previously I used to marvel at how my tsi118 + stage1 would pull up it at 100kph holding D7 all the way. If I drove the same hill in stock tune with the Stage I inactive it would always drop back to D6. Now since SC24S4 it always drop back to D6 even with the APR stage1 tune active

Around the corner there is a gently sloped hill that I used to test the DSG7s behaviour when I was investigating how it worked. Again, stage1 used to crawl up this hill in D2 with foot off accelerator at idle. In Stock mode is used to drop back to D1. Now it always drops back to D1 with stage1 active

Chicken and Egg argument I know. But you could say that SC24S4 has just altered the DSG7s change points, while the same power and torque is available. On the other hand I was lead to believe the change points are somewhat dictated by the available torque from the engine.

..or I could have just put on a load of weight I suppose.

Interested to know if anyone else has the same feeling?
Wonder if any of the tuners have checked their claimed figures are still achievable after SC24S4?

[noone]

It could be related to something else, fuel, oil change, clogged filter... I'm not saying that's the reason, but there are many components involved.

My generic dump pipe added a few kw and gave a little gurgle.

[logger]

Yeah, it could be. Undoubtedly there are numerous possibilities. Car was serviced by VW a couple of weeks back, oil was changed. Only ever use Premium unleaded.
But starting with the obvious change that has been made to a heap of cars. The ECU program has been modified by a service campaign.
Is would seem possible that part of the strategy to protect the engine from "issues" was to limit the load it can be subjected to.

So has anyone else noticed a difference like I have?
How can tuners know that what ever was changed by SC24S4 will not effect the output of the engine unless they have compared its output before and after?

[Beaker]

Most rally cars have the straightest, most free flowing exhaust possible, often bolted directly through the floor - they do have to meet noise criteria to be able to compete, but interior comfort and 'note' is not a consideration - inside a rally car (any race car really) is noisy and hot and bloody uncomfortable - not really comparable with what you want in a road car.

Having said that - header design is/was critical to alow for scavenging of the cylinders and good flow, turbo cars have a huge restriction not far past the exhaust ports anyway and from what I've seen around service areas the exhaust post turbo isn't as critical (still needs to flow well obviously). From a performance point of view most good exhaust places should be able to knock up a decent pipe - what it will sound like - well thats another story.

[logger]

Thanks Beaker. Dunno what that go to do with the topic of this thread though.

Now APR ECU Upgrade MK6 Golf - Customer perspective

Has anyone else thought their MK6 with APR ECU Upgrade is down on power since the 24S4 Service Campaign? From my perspective, I reckon the available power has been reduced.

[Ryan_R]

If you take the car back to the ACR place and get them to redo the ECU, do you think you'll get your power back? Just curious: Although you say it's down on power, is it still more powerful than stock?

[logger]

Good Points Ryan.

If you take the car back to the ACR place and get them to redo the ECU, do you think you'll get your power back?

Done that already. From what I understand, a VW ECU reflash such as SC24S4 overwrites and effectively removes the stage 1 tune. So you have to take it back to APR and get their tune reloaded afterwards. I did that straight away.

I know it is far more complex than this with curves and so on. But in a a simplistic sense, if a tune hypothetically increases power and torque by say 10% from standard, then because the standard MAY have been reduced by SC24S4, could not the net effect be reduction in the maximum torque available? ie is it an absolute or relative effect.

Just curious: Although you say it's down on power, is it still more powerful than stock?

Dunno. A bit perhaps. The glaring difference previously was its ability to hold gears much longer as torque requirement increased.
This was a difference that was clearly demonstrable, whereas all the seat of the pants stuff is subjective. Cant see that difference any more.
Now you have got me thinking.. Wonder if it is possible for APR to have somehow mucked up the ECU tune so I have stock in both positions?
I think I had better give them a tingle tomorrow.

[Ryan_R]

No worries, I'm still thinking of getting Stage 1 applied next year after my first service and of course want to know if it's still worth it by the time I get around to it. Keep us posted.

[cameronp]

Dunno. A bit perhaps. The glaring difference previously was its ability to hold gears much longer as torque requirement increased.
This was a difference that was clearly demonstrable, whereas all the seat of the pants stuff is subjective. Cant see that difference any more.
Now you have got me thinking.. Wonder if it is possible for APR to have somehow mucked up the ECU tune so I have stock in both positions?
I think I had better give them a tingle tomorrow.

Didn't you post acceleration measurements with the APR tune enabled/disabled before and after the service campaign? Regardless, I would've thought you could very easily test low-RPM torque with the tune vs stock, using your VAG-COM to measure acceleration.

I keep coming very close to calling up the local APR dealer because while I'm quite satisfied with the 118TSI's performance, I miss the shove to the back of your seat that you get in e.g. a diesel Golf or my old XR5 Focus. I'm not really sure whether it would help though - hard to say whether the TSI feels subjectively slow because of its lack of low-end torque, because the DSG box is so much smoother than the manuals I'm used to, or just because it's so quiet.

[Ryan_R]

The only problem of making the car faster is that you spend less time enjoying spirited acceleration. I guess that's one of life's Catch 22 situations for you. I've adopted a slightly different foot position to avoid the pause when accelerating, but I feel that it takes a tad longer to switch back to the brake pedal if needed, so I don't use it in peak hour. I reckon a new pair of shoes might help too, my current work ones a pain to drive in.

[Guy_H]

There is no real change in the performance calibration of the updated VW file, the "safety" stuff that has been modified by VW should not effect performance - if it did, it would effect the standard performance (not reported by anyone that I know of).

Imagine Volkswagen sending a letter & new badges out to customers:

Sorry, your car is no longer a 118tsi, its now a 112tsi .......................

[logger]

Didn't you post acceleration measurements with the APR tune enabled/disabled before and after the service campaign? Regardless, I would've thought you could very easily test low-RPM torque with the tune vs stock, using your VAG-COM to measure acceleration.

The acceleration measurements I did were way back before I got the service campaign. But good idea. Am in in position to test and compare it again in the next few days.

There is no real change in the performance calibration of the updated VW file, the "safety" stuff that has been modified by VW should not effect performance - if it did, it would effect the standard performance (not reported by anyone that I know of).

That being the case, could it be my stage 1 tune was not reloaded correctly after the service campaign. Switching all seems to work though.
Should I expect to be seeing the same max manifold pressure in both modes? Because a quick test shows it currently peaks at 2360mb in both stage1 and stock.

[Guy_H]

The acceleration measurements I did were way back before I got the service campaign. But good idea. Am in in position to test and compare it again in the next few days.



That being the case, could it be my stage 1 tune was not reloaded correctly after the service campaign. Switching all seems to work though.
Should I expect to be seeing the same max manifold pressure in both modes? Because a quick test shows it currently peaks at 2360mb in both stage1 and stock.

If the switching is there, then the program is loaded 100% - the performance calibration has not changed a single bit between revisions. Don't forget if you are going to be data logging on the road, after switching you should allow a good period of time to allow the adaptation to catch up. do a TBA to clear your fuel trims as well!

[mr gee]

I recall Superchips telling me that SC24S4 did limit the max torque. Took them a couple of months to send me a new program.

ted, maybe we should meet up to compare tunes.

[logger]

If the switching is there, then the program is loaded 100% - the performance calibration has not changed a single bit between revisions. Don't forget if you are going to be data logging on the road, after switching you should allow a good period of time to allow the adaptation to catch up. do a TBA to clear your fuel trims as well!

I did some 0-100kph testing with VagCom today. Seems to confirm that my APR ECU tune has lost its mojo
14 runs back and forth on same track and no marked difference between stock and APR. Performs like a stock 118tsi in both programs.

Program 2
APR STAGE 1 ACTIVE - So the car should be faster that stock right? Always has been in the past when I tested it. It has been in Stage 1 and driven for about 250km since ECU programs were last switched.

8.2
8.3
8.2
8.5
8.3 These times are what you might expect from a stock standard car with no tune. Not what you should see with the tune active

Program 1
STOCK program active and and TBA performed. (Although not driven more than about 3 km since previous runs so fuel trims may not have adapted. So I am happy for you to discount these runs.

8.3
8.2
8.2
7.9

Still in Stock tune, but now 6 hours later, after driving 80km with stock tune active to ensure it has adapted fuel trims. Car allowed to sit for about 4 hours in middle of the 80km drive. Restarted and returned to same test track.

7.9
8.0
8.1
7.9
7.9

So these times in stock mode were faster than achieved earlier with the Stage 1 tune active!!! Granted it was 6 hours later and some environmental factor may have changed. But the point is, these should have been slower not faster.

You will recall from earlier in this thread - I had in the past achieved 6.9 sec with the APR Stage 1 and routuinely done it in the low 7s. The improvement used to be just under 1 sec. But more importantly there was a difference. Now I see no difference

Is it possible that stock tune is getting selected by both programs? Sure seems that way.

I recall Superchips telling me that SC24S4 did limit the max torque...... maybe we should meet up to compare tunes.

Yeah we could do that, but you would flog the pants off me