X-Pack Paint protection?

[Maverick]

So why do you continuously come on here and attempt to stir problems then?

Yes of course you have an opinion but there comes a point when your opinion changes into trolling/making it a personal battle between yourself and your reps vs Optimum, Nano etc?

Where have I done this?

I may be wrong in my assumptions but your replies are squarely directed at people who provide services such as Nano, Optimum etc.

Yes you are wrong - where have I done this?

It's pretty clear that you believe* all the marketing gimmicks, as you said in one of your earlier posts your coating is a 9H hardness similar to if not the same hardness as a diamond but don't assume that everyone else will fall for the marketing BS.

*or because of some referral kickback - you did promote a discount if they mentioned your name. (link - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/foru...tml#post731360)

Try not to take offense to my post

It's hard not to take offense at such an inaccurate post from someone who clearly has not followed the thread.

[blake_jl]

"Opti-Coat is not a nano particle, it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds.

As far as the durability of Opti-Coat, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down, however, you can polish it over time ! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat. Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.”

Where do I start with this, the whole two paragraphs are just full of marketing BS.

This is factual information provided by an expert chemist. The guy formulated clear coat finishes all his life. Why all of a sudden is the way these coatings work nothing but BS marketing?

To be honest, from your reply to my previous post you are now just clutching at straws.

[Buller_Scott]

To be honest, from your reply to my previous post you are now just clutching at straws.

+1 ... this is more about winning an argument than staying on point. to suggest that people who see water beading / sheeting ability over time as an indicator of the effectiveness of the products they're using, are really just experiencing placebo, is utter horse sht.

i'm no expert either, but the reason i asked mr. duco scratch for an explanation in layman's terms is because i myself am trying to reconcile how the very few customers of his on this forum, who have paid $x for the three year protection pack, or indeed $2x for the seven year pack, are able to discredit the personal experiences of other forum members in the context of nanolex and opticoat etc?

if it's good, it's good. if it's sht, it's sht. i have no problems in admitting that i've used some pretty shtty products before. and also some "acceptable" ones. gloss and shine is second to protection durability on my agenda, and i judge this simply by watching for when the water stops beading.

and wouldnt you know it? turtle wax platinum seems to last the same as the super hard shell wax, the eagle one spray wax is far superior to the autoglym equivalent even though it's half the price, and the one that beaded water the longest? nu-finish once a year....

i've just recently purchased a well reputed, well respected, widely applauded sealant (wont name brands), as well as a wax to bring out depth, as i'll be working to get the car looking immaculate for DOVW this year. i'll be posting results in this forum.

i have nothing to lose or gain from the sealant i've bought. if it only beads for two weeks, i'll be shtty with the product and i wont try it again. if it beads for 3 months, then i'll put it down as doing what it's supposed to, job done. either way, it wont be "placebo", like pretty much ALL aftermarket intake mods are.

p.s. just as a word to the wise, perhaps one shouldnt dismiss the experiences of people on here to be "placebo", because the moment you come on talking about your positive experiences with a little-known vendor on here, guess what? you've just told everyone that personal experiences are often placebo, AND THUS SO ARE YOURS (8th grade debating).

[Corey_R]

Maverick, I know that you've been happy with Merrick's work putting Ventureshield Stonegard on your car in the past. You and other people have stated this on the forums, and whether Merrick knows this or not, I have also referred people to his business when they've asked where to get PPF in QLD.

However, PPF and the quality and professionalism of the installation isn't the topic being discussed.

Since you haven't been in contact with Merrick for 18 months, have you looked at his new product range of "Ceramic Polymer Nanotechnology" paint care? If you haven't, please go and look at the website. Once you have, or if you already have, can you please explain to me how Merrick's website is any different to any of these other "marketting BS" examples that you are pointing out?

This is what I object to in all these posts, and I feel that this is what other members are objecting to here as well. Merrick is coming to a forum and giving his opinion of other peoples products, but what is it based on? Any hands on experience with those products? Any scientific studies he's conducted on those products? Or just reading their websites/forums etc?

Merrick appears to be telling people that competitors to his products cannot possibly do what they claim, and that people should look around the web and find his products instead. Yet, in my opinion from reading his site, his products make pretty much the same claims that he is claiming other companies can't meet. So why can his?

Yes, I'm not a scientist, and I haven't done any hands on comparison of all these products in a lab or controlled environment. But if Merrick isn't a scientist or hasn't conducted these tests either, how are his words any more valid than anyone elses here?

[Maverick]

+1 ... this is more about winning an argument than staying on point. to suggest that people who see water beading / sheeting ability over time as an indicator of the effectiveness of the products they're using, are really just experiencing placebo, is utter horse sht.

My comment about the placebo effect was about people buying products with all sorts of claims like hard as diamonds and claiming they were fantastic when a much cheaper sealer would likely last just as long and given similar results. If you bothered to read the paragraph where I said this - http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/foru...tml#post733178 - I also said that these same products are still decent sealers but with added BS claims (and associated costs).

p.s. just as a word to the wise, perhaps one shouldnt dismiss the experiences of people on here to be "placebo", because the moment you come on talking about your positive experiences with a little-known vendor on here, guess what? you've just told everyone that personal experiences are often placebo, AND THUS SO ARE YOURS (8th grade debating).

Is misquoting people and making thinly veiled personal attacks all you can do?

[Buller_Scott]

if Merrick isn't a scientist or hasn't conducted these tests either, how are his words any more valid than anyone elses here?

^ so it would seem that im not the only one who would like Merrick (well, to be honest, ANYONE will do at this point) to explain, with some measure of clarity and without necessarily bagging a competing product, just HOW the "pay once and you get 3 years, but pay twice and you get SEVEN years!" duco scratch manages to do what even nanolex professional / opti-seal cannot?

[Buller_Scott]

Is misquoting people and making thinly veiled personal attacks all you can do?

well im sorry if you feel i've made a personal attack. my.... "demeanor" was directed more at the content of the discussion that had taken place in the most recent posts between yourself and ryanr32.

im sorry if you felt i was getting personal - my placebo comment was directed at the idea of peoples' first hand experiences with a product as being dismissable, rather than at yourself.

we've never really seen eye to eye, but i dont intend to be scathing or personal.

[dopey]

Personally I think it's a bad deal and that's why I've opted to choose other options with all of my new vehicles.

Why?

No matter how good the product apparently may be at protecting the paint it is going to need to be renewed every couple of years at the most to truly keep the paint finish looking immaculate if that is indeed your goal. That goes for all sealant products. They eventually degrade and muck eventually does start sticking to the paint. With this in mind I think there are much better value products on the market.

You've got a couple of main choices with your new car;

1) Start researching about detailing on internet forums and spend some of your spare time keeping your paint maintained to the best standard you can. This could mean you opt to do things like clay, polish and wax or seal your paint yourself. For example you may want to seal the cars paintwork with a good quality, long lasting sealant like Nanolex or Zaino Z2 with ZFX. All depends how enthusiastic you are about it.

2) Take your car to a professional detailer and have them correct the paint and apply a sealant. Depending on how well you look after your paint this could end up costing you less or costing you more than what the "X-Pack" would have in the long run, but the resulting paint finish would undoubtedly leave any dealer applied paint protection for dead. I say in the long run because once again, it will need to be renewed every so often.

While a good paint sealant will help immensely with keeping your paint free from contaminants it will not perform miracles and good washing technique is crucial to keeping your paint in tidy condition. The more you look after your paint yourself, the less effort you will have to put in when renewing your choice of paint protection or the less you will have to spend at your preferred detailer if that's the avenue you choose.

For fabrics, once again, it will always wear down over time and need renewal. This is especially because of the constant contact from people when sitting in the seats or putting their feet on the carpet etc. Some cheaper options may apparently not last as long, but for the difference in price you can afford to renew it many times and still come out ahead. One product I can definitely vouch for is Nanolex Leather & Fabric Sealant. I've used this for the last few years on our cars, renewing it every 12 months. It does a fantastic job of repelling moisture and it stops things from sticking to the fabric. I had bubble gum mashed into one of the carpet mats in my car once, and it lifted straight out with a little bit of all purpose cleaner and some elbow grease. I have no doubt that the Nanolex sealant helped stop the gum from becoming permanently stuck to the carpet fibres.

Myself I've gone down both paths on my current two vehicles:

> The Golf has Nanolex sealant applied to the interior, and the paintwork I did myself too. The process is roughly as follows: Wash, Clay, Correct, Polish, Seal. I personally choose Zaino Z2 with ZFX additive and find it is effective for 12 months based on my personal driving conditions.

> The Passat had the swirl marks corrected and the paint sealed with Optimum Opti-Guard at a professional detailer. In fact, even with a full window tint job and the paint correction it still came in under the cost of what they are asking for the X-Pack paint protection only. Some can argue which product is the better protection, but as I said I have no doubts that both products will need to be stripped off and reapplied again in future.

My #1 tips - TWO BUCKET WASH METHOD!!! and NO CAR WASH CAFE'S OR FOAMING BRUSH DIY!!!

[Hail22]

Personally I think it's a bad deal and that's why I've opted to choose other options with all of my new vehicles.

Why?

No matter how good the product apparently may be at protecting the paint it is going to need to be renewed every couple of years at the most to truly keep the paint finish looking immaculate if that is indeed your goal. That goes for all sealant products. They eventually degrade and muck eventually does start sticking to the paint. With this in mind I think there are much better value products on the market.

You've got a couple of main choices with your new car;

1) Start researching about detailing on internet forums and spend some of your spare time keeping your paint maintained to the best standard you can. This could mean you opt to do things like clay, polish and wax or seal your paint yourself. For example you may want to seal the cars paintwork with a good quality, long lasting sealant like Nanolex or Zaino Z2 with ZFX. All depends how enthusiastic you are about it.

2) Take your car to a professional detailer and have them correct the paint and apply a sealant. Depending on how well you look after your paint this could end up costing you less or costing you more than what the "X-Pack" would have in the long run, but the resulting paint finish would undoubtedly leave any dealer applied paint protection for dead. I say in the long run because once again, it will need to be renewed every so often.

While a good paint sealant will help immensely with keeping your paint free from contaminants it will not perform miracles and good washing technique is crucial to keeping your paint in tidy condition. The more you look after your paint yourself, the less effort you will have to put in when renewing your choice of paint protection or the less you will have to spend at your preferred detailer if that's the avenue you choose.

For fabrics, once again, it will always wear down over time and need renewal. This is especially because of the constant contact from people when sitting in the seats or putting their feet on the carpet etc. Some cheaper options may apparently not last as long, but for the difference in price you can afford to renew it many times and still come out ahead. One product I can definitely vouch for is Nanolex Leather & Fabric Sealant. I've used this for the last few years on our cars, renewing it every 12 months. It does a fantastic job of repelling moisture and it stops things from sticking to the fabric. I had bubble gum mashed into one of the carpet mats in my car once, and it lifted straight out with a little bit of all purpose cleaner and some elbow grease. I have no doubt that the Nanolex sealant helped stop the gum from becoming permanently stuck to the carpet fibres.

Myself I've gone down both paths on my current two vehicles:

> The Golf has Nanolex sealant applied to the interior, and the paintwork I did myself. The process is roughly as follows: Wash, Clay, Correct, Polish, Seal. I personally choose Zaino Z2 with ZFX additive and find it is effective for 12 months based on my personal driving conditions.

> The Passat had the swirl marks corrected and the paint sealed with Optimum Opti-Guard at a professional detailer. In fact, even with a full window tint job and the paint correction it still came in under the cost of what they are asking for the X-Pack paint protection only. Some can argue which product is the better protection, but as I said I have no doubts that both products will need to be stripped off and reapplied again in future.

My #1 tips - TWO BUCKET WASH METHOD!!! and NO CAR WASH CAFE'S OR FOAMING BRUSH DIY!!!

Two bucket wash method with snow foam pre wash is fantastic, both buckets warm water one clear water and one soapy water this prevents basically re-applying the contaminants/soot on your vehicle thus creating swirl marks etc

Very logical way to wash ones vehicle

[Merrick]

Dr Ghodoussi stated:

"The hardness of Opti-Coat after the first week of curing is between 6-7H based on pencil hardness scale. The polymer however, continues to dehydrate with heat over time which increases the percentage of silicon carbide linkages. The hardness of silicon carbide is 9H. Therefore, the hardness of Opti-Coat starts at 6-7H and reaches 9H over time. Because of the silicon carbide backbone, it is also very heat resistant. You can do the flame test on sheet metal and there will be no change in color on the coated side".

This is what I said in my post on page 9 #81 about Opticoat - The Opticoat does not contain nanoparticles and certainly not those that are coloured black like silicon carbide. So the reference must be to the polymer itself. There are plenty of silanes that will moisture cure at room temperature and form films that contain SiC (silicon carbide like) bonds.
I am not sure how the heat resistance of any paint protection system is important for everyday motorist, unless you plan to drive your car into volcano.

[blake_jl]

I am not sure how the heat resistance of any paint protection system is important for everyday motorist, unless you plan to drive your car into volcano.

I'll ignore your comments about the formulation Merrick. I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it. But in reference to heat resistance of course this is important. Application to wheels, metal surfaces such as exhaust just to name a couple.

[Hail22]

This is what Gandalf thinks of some people errhmmm "forum trolls" making this once good thread a war of brands

[gonsped]

Gees....... what a thread. Keep the flames and useless banter on the low guys. Forum readers are only interested to see what works and for how long it lasted.

I recently had my new Golf done in Opti-Coat and so far so good after the first wash 3 weeks later. I guess I will only know in 12-24 mths time whether this product really works.

My car is under the sun every working day and garaged anytime else. It'd be interesting if the opticoat fades over time especially the opti-coat treated plastic headlights. Without protection, these surely will cloud over.

[Buller_Scott]

Gees....... what a thread. Keep the flames and useless banter on the low guys. Forum readers are only interested to see what works and for how long it lasted.

I recently had my new Golf done in Opti-Coat and so far so good after the first wash 3 weeks later. I guess I will only know in 12-24 mths time whether this product really works.

My car is under the sun every working day and garaged anytime else. It'd be interesting if the opticoat fades over time especially the opti-coat treated plastic headlights. Without protection, these surely will cloud over.

make no mistake, there are just as many forum members who love the banter and the isht slinging - it's great for popcorn consumption.

and of course your opti coat is going to be good 3 weeks later - opti seal (it's little brother) should be good three months later (especially if layered, like mine is).

[why_999]

I couldn't resist must say something...

This was/will be my first brand new car, and I was almost shocked with the MING MOLE...(I never heard that term before..lol)..
Any way from a chemist point of view, how can an inert molecule such as titanium dioxide, be self cleaning, etc... Yes it will UV guard the car but that's all.

I had a very good laugh, when some early stated it will clean itself, you must remember this molecule is in most sun creams. Excellent sales pitch to my customer.. Take this suncream it will CLEAN your child while protecting from the harmful uv rays... I wouldn't be about to say it with a straight face.

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