X-Pack Paint protection?

[Hail22]

If only i could get my car to shine and be clean like this



My polos clean bum

[ryanr32]

What a load of dribble this thread is.

I dont have "paint protection" and just use Zaino Z2 Pro on my car reguraly but from what i gather Merrick has no interest but to break down he's competitions products and from my point of view, its nothing but pure Libel - your posting publicly about competitors products and how you "think" they perform, (Libel = false statements that could harm the reputation of another, in permenant form such as print or online), so i would be careful on what you post publically especially since your are in direct "competition" otherwise you might find yourself in court one day. Its nothing but a poor business act especially in a public domain and i really dont see what your getting at? Without using these products personally I don’t think your input has any credibility.

Yes you might be "trying" to tell people how the product would perform "theoretically" from a chemical point of view compared to what they claim it does but at the end of the day this doesn’t make your product any better then the rest and personally I don’t see how your product differs and why you insist on mouthing off about other products and their ingredients, going by your post about other products your paint protection and warranty terms/period must be the bee's knees?

What is so called Opti-coat?

The Opticoat does not contain nanoparticles and certainly not those that are coloured black like silicon carbide. So the reference must be to the polymer itself. But that is really just a marketing gimmick. There are plenty of silanes that will moisture cure at room temperature and form films that contain SiC (silicon carbide like) bonds. To achieve the properties associated with silicon carbide, all of the organic segments of the coating would need to be oxidized or burnt off. Then a porcelain material would be left which is untenable on a flexible substrate.
The Opticoat is a sealant and does not add additional gloss except for that which is incidental, i.e., when seen at an angle rather than directly where the substrate properties are magnified; the water beating effect is due to silicones that make up a good portion of the coating and these silicones will eventually leach out of the film or abrade from it and then the water will lie flat; the method of application and the amount that is applied results in a very thin film relative to its solid content, i.e., by wipe on and wiping off, the majority of the coatings is removed from the applied surface.

To who are interested what MotorOne paint protection is (X-pack, Ming, Platinum Plus, Fifth dimention, etc ) or any paint protection containing TiO2 (titanium dioxide)

My understanding of the use of photocatalytically induced TiO2 is that in order for it to truly "burn-off" (oxidize) the organic matter (soils) it must possess an activity that will also oxidize the organic binder holding the mineral in place. This was also the conclusion that a world provider of nanoscale TiO2 also shared with me, i.e., that they could not find a binder (coating resin) that would withstand the bond breaking action of the TiO2 they manufacturer. Hence, if the mineral is to be truly affective in oxidizing the road grime, it will also destroy the polymers (which contain organic cross-linkers) holding it in place.
One clue to whether or not the product does in fact contain TiO2 that is working to produce a "self cleaning" effect, is to check for water bead. If the water lies flat, that is, flatter than normal (with no wax or sealant on the surface) like it would if it was on a mineral surface, then TiO2 is probably present. Also, for the mineral to be effective, it most likely needs to be in a continuous film like surface, that is, in contact with itself. If this is the case then, as a white coloured material, the paint's gloss would be greatly diminished. The film would also be very brittle. Hence the need for organic connecting points to maintain flexibility.

This product appears, from the website, to be very similar to that of the gtech, i.e., the "nanotech" label pertains to the physical structure of the film that is formed and not any actual nanoparticles.

While I'm at it, let me also mention what might be considered a related technology to that of the "nanotechs", i.e., the sol-gel process wherein the silica is formed during a reaction that takes place just prior to the application of the product and essentially continues until it is polymerized into a rubbery mass (the next day, for example). The 2 years that is given to the longevity is due to the inherent brittleness of the coating which is very much akin to glass with its Si-Si formations. Hence, once the organics are "burnt" off from the sun or alkaline contaminates, the film becomes silicate like and flakes off, though the material is too small to notice by the naked eye.

[Maverick]

What a load of dribble this thread is.

Is it? It exposes the BS that many companies use to sell their products.

I dont have "paint protection" and just use Zaino Z2 Pro on my car reguraly but from what i gather Merrick has no interest but to break down he's competitions products and from my point of view, its nothing but pure Libel - your posting publicly about competitors products and how you "think" they perform, (Libel = false statements that could harm the reputation of another, in permenant form such as print or online), so i would be careful on what you post publically especially since your are in direct "competition" otherwise you might find yourself in court one day. Its nothing but a poor business act especially in a public domain and i really dont see what your getting at? Without using these products personally I don’t think your input has any credibility.

I don't see the problem, many of these products rely on ridiculous claims to sell their products and many people believed Slick 50's advertising for a long time and some still do despite it being exposed as rubbish early on. As far as I can see Merrick has posted facts that question the claims made by some of the paint protection companies and sellers.

You might want to look at the defamation laws in Australia as well as you're way off the mark.

Yes you might be "trying" to tell people how the product would perform "theoretically" from a chemical point of view compared to what they claim it does but at the end of the day this doesn’t make your product any better then the rest and personally I don’t see how your product differs and why you insist on mouthing off about other products and their ingredients, going by your post about other products your paint protection and warranty terms/period must be the bee's knees?

I find it strange that you joined up just to make this post.

[Buller_Scott]

you might find yourself in court one day. Its nothing but a poor business act especially in a public domain and i really dont see what your getting at? Without using these products personally I don’t think your input has any credibility.

the funny thing about this statement is that it's not just vendors of car detailing products who have been known to do this on watercooled... it has been an established tactic by some "vendors" on here for a while (i wont go further into it than that, especially keeping in mind that things seem to have cooled down on that front, despite efforts to preclude the inevitable i.e. more consumers trying more and more different vendors, and being 100% satisfied with the results).

but MERRICK, i would be interested to know - i was actually on your site today, and i was VERY close to purchasing one of your "sealants" (dont bash me over lexical semantics lol, i use the term to mean "sht that you put on your car that protects it better than your average carnauba paste wax").

i saw you have 3yr, 5yr and 7yr protection products - even something like opticoat or nanolex would be optimistic in a claim to provide 12month protection in real world conditions (IMO for a daily driven, parked outside, rinse once a week proper wash every fortnight etc etc)..... in layman's terms, how is a product such as your 3 yr (guaranteed) protectant superior to these products, and how could the 7 yr protectant be that much better still? (unless duco scratch somehow knows of technology and processes / techniques that are 10 years ahead of competitors with much much greater R&D resources and buying power than duco scratch?).

it might seem as though im being cynical, but i would genuinely like to know how your products are that much better, in layman's terms...

p.s. i might have been inclined to purchase one or two of your products today (even a product that fulfilled half of a 5 year protection guarantee would be far better than what i've been using to date), but for the fact that there are no explanations / descriptions for what each of the products in each "kit" actually does, as well as the fact that you cant buy the products individually.

[ryanr32]

Is it? It exposes the BS that many companies use to sell their products.

Its called marketing, im sure if i went onto Ducoscratch i could find some marketing that others might find BS, im no professional but some things i read on hes site are questionable as well. Whats so different about he's product and warranty compared to others, maybe he can upload he's warranty terms and expose himself, he seems to be good at exposing other products and how he "thinks" they perform and how their warranty works when he hasnt tried or read their warranty terms first hand?

I don't see the problem, many of these products rely on ridiculous claims to sell their products and many people believed Slick 50's advertising for a long time and some still do despite it being exposed as rubbish early on. As far as I can see Merrick has posted facts that question the claims made by some of the paint protection companies and sellers.

As i said before im not a professional just an enthusiast but ive read about products like nanolex, opti-coat, cqaurtz, gtechniq on other forums, not just from professionals but from people who have purchased it and they are claiming its still performing 2 years later. A customer has no financial gain so why would they lie? There seems to be a lot of guys on another VW forum that are extremely happy with opti-coat and its warranty and cquartz, so again - if the product or warranty claims were BS im sure they are smart enough to not buy it, they wouldnt be signing off on a warranty they thought was questionable, but instead they are highly recommending it?

Merrick seems to be rubbish all these other products but what makes he's product so great? Just because someone offers 3yr Warranty, 5 Year Warranty, 7 Year Warranty or even a Lifetime Warranty, this doesnt mean the product will last this length of time. Its simply just a warranty, if the product fails within that time its reapplied.

If he's product is that great why arent all the detailing forums, especially the oversea's ones buzzing about it? or is he's product just relabled?

I find it strange that you joined up just to make this post.

Sorry i didnt realise there was specific threads i have to start posting in before i was aloud to join this discussion, i am a detailing enthusiast and headed straight to the detailing forums and this was the first thread i started reading and thought it was interesting.

Going by Merrick's recent post he is the one that signed up to do nothing but rubbish other paint protection products, he's never posted anywhere else! - He's posting in a forum sponsored by CCP and in another thread he's questioning and rubbishing Nanolex? - great for hes business that is! does he even own a VW? And your accusing me of signing up just to post here, maybe you should check he's recent post? As i said before i have nothing to do with any of these paint protections, im quiet happy with my Z2. Sheesh.

Ofcourse that doesnt bother you, by the sounds of things your quiet happy under he's desk.

[Hail22]

I personally am starting to think this thread has lost its shine at least a page or two ago, so much bashing with little to no evidence to warrant it.

What matters is i'm a very happy chap, you need to understand to respect peoples choices and keep your personal views to yourself Maverick...

Your opinion is viewed none the less however you being obsessed by proving a point will only damage your credibility

So please stop with the negative posting because this was a good post about 3 or so pages ago...

[blake_jl]

It is a lot of dribble. And you might find RyanR32 isn't too far off the mark in regards to slander/defamation. Merrick has never seen or used our product yet is passing off random accusations as fact. I doubt he has seen or used some of the other products mentioned either and I would highly doubt he has any actual education in this field ie. Merrick is not a chemist. In actual fact, products such as nanolex pro, g techniq and cquartz we consider to be our nearest competitors. All of which Merrick has a problem with.

The topic of silicon carbide is not mentioned in our marketing at all. This information was actually released when we had a scientist from South Australia enquiring about Opti-Coat. Dr Ghodoussi stated:

"The hardness of Opti-Coat after the first week of curing is between 6-7H based on pencil hardness scale. The polymer however, continues to dehydrate with heat over time which increases the percentage of silicon carbide linkages. The hardness of silicon carbide is 9H. Therefore, the hardness of Opti-Coat starts at 6-7H and reaches 9H over time. Because of the silicon carbide backbone, it is also very heat resistant. You can do the flame test on sheet metal and there will be no change in color on the coated side".

The information we provide our clients is the scratch resistance based on pencil hardness scale. Opti-Coat is also classed as a ceramic clear coat because of its content stated above.

Durability - this has been proven in real world testing. No accelerated lab testing and it is generally accepted now as fact. There really is no argument here and the warranty terms guarantee it with no clauses or conditions.

Chemical resistance - as above. The product has been proven in real world testing. The warranty terms guarantee it and there is no fine print like the immediate removal of the contamination.

If any of our vw watercooled clients have any concerns they can contact us direct to discuss.

[Maverick]

Its called marketing, im sure if i went onto Ducoscratch i could find some marketing that others might find BS, im no professional but some things i read on hes site are questionable as well. Whats so different about he's product and warranty compared to others, maybe he can upload he's warranty terms and expose himself, he seems to be good at exposing other products and how he "thinks" they perform and how their warranty works when he hasnt tried or read their warranty terms first hand?

I don't know, why don't you ask him?

As i said before im not a professional just an enthusiast but ive read about products like nanolex, opti-coat, cqaurtz, gtechniq on other forums, not just from professionals but from people who have purchased it and they are claiming its still performing 2 years later. A customer has no financial gain so why would they lie? There seems to be a lot of guys on another VW forum that are extremely happy with opti-coat and its warranty and cquartz, so again - if the product or warranty claims were BS im sure they are smart enough to not buy it, they wouldnt be signing off on a warranty they thought was questionable, but instead they are highly recommending it?

It's often a placebo effect, if you spend money on something and tell others how great it is you will want it be great. Happens with many products that people buy, technically they can't work but in people's minds they do work. And some are still decent sealers but way overpriced with BS claims about coatings as hard as diamonds and so forth.

Merrick seems to be rubbish all these other products but what makes he's product so great? Just because someone offers 3yr Warranty, 5 Year Warranty, 7 Year Warranty or even a Lifetime Warranty, this doesnt mean the product will last this length of time. Its simply just a warranty, if the product fails within that time its reapplied.

If you want to know why don't you ask him and you answered your own question on the warranty.

Sorry i didnt realise there was specific threads i have to start posting in before i was aloud to join this discussion, i am a detailing enthusiast and headed straight to the detailing forums and this was the first thread i started reading and thought it was interesting.

Going by Merrick's recent post he is the one that signed up to do nothing but rubbish other paint protection products, he's never posted anywhere else! - He's posting in a forum sponsored by CCP and in another thread he's questioning and rubbishing Nanolex? - great for hes business that is! does he even own a VW? And your accusing me of signing up just to post here, maybe you should check he's recent post? As i said before i have nothing to do with any of these paint protections, im quiet happy with my Z2. Sheesh.

He's posted in other threads and he owns a R36 which he's owned for years. It's natural to post about things that you have knowledge of or that interest you.

BTW sponsoring a forum does not give you ownership of the forum, it would hardly give people a balanced view of products if you could only discuss one product in a favourable way.

Ofcourse that doesnt bother you, by the sounds of things your quiet happy under he's desk.

I stated clearly that I have no connection with Merrick apart from being a satisfied customer and haven't spoken or emailed him for at least 18 months. My history of recommending products and vendors is open for all to see, you on the other hand joined the forum to jump into a thread and launch at attack and clearly you have some relationship with one of the products (or vendors that push that product).

[Maverick]

What matters is i'm a very happy chap, you need to understand to respect peoples choices and keep your personal views to yourself Maverick...

You know that his a forum where people express their opinions and have discussions?

If you can't deal with a product that you use receiving negative feedback either toughen up or do your own research to see if there is any substance to the claims. If you're happy with the product who cares.

[blake_jl]

It's often a placebo effect, if you spend money on something and tell others how great it is you will want it be great.

That's not true. We aren't talking about a $7000 carnauba wax here that gives people a certain look to their car. This can be considered placebo by many where they think their $7000 carnauba wax looks better than the guy who paid $50.

We are talking about something completely different. People want durability, resistance to chemicals, and scratch resistance from these types of products and that is why they buy them. All these can be measured in a basic way by anyone.

Durability people measure by the water behaviour. Does it bead water, does that hydrophobic behaviour die off. Chemical resistance people measure by what happens when a bird poos on their car or when they wash it with strong chemicals does it strip the coating? Does the bird poo etch the coating? Scratch resistance they observe how swirl marks do or don't build up on the surface of their car compared to their previous experience.

This is not placebo. It either does it, or it doesn't.

[Merrick]

Going by Merrick's recent post he is the one that signed up to do nothing but rubbish other paint protection products, he's never posted anywhere else! - He's posting in a forum sponsored by CCP and in another thread he's questioning and rubbishing Nanolex? - great for hes business that is! does he even own a VW?

As a matter of fact I do own VW Passat R36 since August 2008, one of the first R36 in Australia and I have been on and off on this forum since, however I never registered until this year in June.
Regarding to your expression “rubbishing Nanolex” I would recommend to re-read my post on page 9 #89

[Maverick]

That's not true. We aren't talking about a $7000 carnauba wax here that gives people a certain look to their car. This can be considered placebo by many where they think their $7000 carnauba wax looks better than the guy who paid $50.

We are talking about something completely different. People want durability, resistance to chemicals, and scratch resistance from these types of products and that is why they buy them. All these can be measured in a basic way by anyone.

But the measurement is still based on someone having a new product applied after their old product was wearing off (one example) and like everything people will still see what they want to see. It's like people who get their car back from being serviced, claim it has more power but all that has occurred is the battery has been disconnected or they were driving a loan car that day with less power.

Durability people measure by the water behaviour. Does it bead water, does that hydrophobic behaviour die off. Chemical resistance people measure by what happens when a bird poos on their car or when they wash it with strong chemicals does it strip the coating? Does the bird poo etch the coating? Scratch resistance they observe how swirl marks do or don't build up on the surface of their car compared to their previous experience.

This is not placebo. It either does it, or it doesn't.

It's very hard for anyone to compare products in the real world, driving conditions change over time, storage conditions change and so on so for someone to compare one product to another when they may have had the other product on their car for two years is very hard to do. Plus there is a lot of one upmanship with marketing to the point where Slick 50 looks like an legit product, I'm not saying any products are bad but I do think the marketing leaves a lot to be desired and there is a lot of BS going around with claims that are difficult to prove correct or incorrect.

Your bird poo example is a good one, no two poos are alike and one may be a lot stronger then another identical looking one so it's hard to compare the resistance of a product this way.

[ryanr32]

Regarding to your expression “rubbishing Nanolex” I would recommend to re-read my post on page 9 #89

You posted what you think the chemical charactaristics are of the product, just like a few other products. I just dont see what your getting at by breaking them down? What makes your product so different?

The only true way to test the difference is to do a side by side test on a single panel between these products, all your theories mean nothing in the real world.

It's often a placebo effect, if you spend money on something and tell others how great it is you will want it be great. Happens with many products that people buy, technically they can't work but in people's minds they do work. And some are still decent sealers but way overpriced with BS claims about coatings as hard as diamonds and so forth.

Please show me where Nanolex or Opti-Coat or the others are stating facts that are not true and are pure marketing BS?

He's posted in other threads

About paint protection and nothing else, but you slam me for joining and replying to this thread just because i have not YET posted in other threads?

BTW sponsoring a forum does not give you ownership of the forum, it would hardly give people a balanced view of products if you could only discuss one product in a favourable way.

Never said other products shouldnt be spoken about in a sponsored forum, theres no balance here anyway. Anything that gets said about another product other then Ducoscratch seems to get critisised and called marketing BS anyway?

I stated clearly that I have no connection with Merrick apart from being a satisfied customer and haven't spoken or emailed him for at least 18 months. My history of recommending products and vendors is open for all to see, you on the other hand joined the forum to jump into a thread and launch at attack and clearly you have some relationship with one of the products (or vendors that push that product).

Good for you, there's also customers of other paint protection companies that are very satisfied too - just because a product states that it can withstand bird poo etching doesnt mean its not true and is false marketing just because Merrick states "What I know there is no product on the market that can withstand a bird poo attack for a week". Im not quite sure how he would know this when he hasnt actually tried the products? Ive seen reviews of other products that have had bird poo left on for several weeks with no ill affects and in some cases the bird poo has just broken down and disappeared, if a product is chemical resistant and can withstand alkaline or acid cleaners then why wouldnt it withstand bird poo? I dont see how this is making false claims if the product actually does do what it states?

But it seems Merrick is quick to try and break those products down and shoot down their warranty terms which he has not seen first hand.

As i mentioned before, im not a pro nor do i know any personally, my postings here are purely my personal thoughts from what i have read about products and reviews, I'm simply an enthusiest that enjoys detailing my own car and have been reading detailings forums for over 6 years, so yes i do have a strong interest in detailing which is probably why i posted here first and found Merricks claims interesting, and just like you i have an opinion and a right to post, so just cause i joined up and my first post was in here doesnt make me any different then you?

[Maverick]

The only true way to test the difference is to do a side by side test on a single panel between these products, all your theories mean nothing in the real world.

Plenty of people have done this, go and look at some of the decent detailing forums overseas (mainly US based).

Please show me where Nanolex or Opti-Coat or the others are stating facts that are not true and are pure marketing BS?

Ok seeing as you bring it up, these from a quick 30 second google.

Nanolex (nanolex)

"Nanolex is the best protection."

So it's the BEST protection. How is this measured? Marketing BS.

"the latest in genuine nanotechnology coatings and sealants"

Genuine nanotechnology as opposed to non genuine? Marketing BS.

And Opti-Coat

"Opti-Coat is not a nano particle, it is rather a pre-polymer that cross links and forms a continuous film on the surfaces it is applied to, similar to a single component isocyanate that forms a clear coat finish. Opti-Coat also reacts with the substrate that it is applied to so it will not delaminate. Nano particles are sub micron particles that are created by controlled reactions or by breaking down larger particles. They do not react or form bonds.

As far as the durability of Opti-Coat, it is similar to urethane clears. It will not wash away or break down, however, you can polish it over time ! The hardness starts at 6-7 but will increase over time to 9H as it is exposed to heat. Coat is based on a resin pre-polymer that we manufacture and once it is applied, it cross links and reacts with urethane and other clear coat paints. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive coating in use. This coating like a regular clear coat lasts indefinitely unless it is removed by polishing, sanding, or paint removers.”

Where do I start with this, the whole two paragraphs are just full of marketing BS.

About paint protection and nothing else, but you slam me for joining and replying to this thread just because i have not YET posted in other threads?

Actually he has posted in other threads that are not related.

Never said other products shouldnt be spoken about in a sponsored forum, theres no balance here anyway. Anything that gets said about another product other then Ducoscratch seems to get critisised and called marketing BS anyway?

Nothing stopping you from asking questions about outer products or finding some information to discredit his claims.

As i mentioned before, im not a pro nor do i know any personally, my postings here are purely my personal thoughts from what i have read about products and reviews, I'm simply an enthusiest that enjoys detailing my own car and have been reading detailings forums for over 6 years, so yes i do have a strong interest in detailing which is probably why i posted here first and found Merricks claims interesting, and just like you i have an opinion and a right to post, so just cause i joined up and my first post was in here doesnt make me any different then you?

You posted nothing to refute any of his claims, all you did was attack him and me. My history with regards to vendors and products is there for everyone to see, you on the other hand come out of nowhere with a seemingly vested interest. If you had researched for 6 years you would know that much of what Merrick states is correct, if on the other hand you've hung around a forum where all they do is pat each other on the back for buying the latest nanotechnology diamond encrusted sealent then that would explain your post.

[Hail22]

You know that his a forum where people express their opinions and have discussions?

If you can't deal with a product that you use receiving negative feedback either toughen up or do your own research to see if there is any substance to the claims. If you're happy with the product who cares.

So why do you continuously come on here and attempt to stir problems then?

Yes of course you have an opinion but there comes a point when your opinion changes into trolling/making it a personal battle between yourself and your reps vs Optimum, Nano etc?

I may be wrong in my assumptions but your replies are squarely directed at people who provide services such as Nano, Optimum etc.

Try not to take offense to my post