Delayed warning messages

[Spinifex]

Soooo... driving around tonight, and I get this red warning ! triangle on the dashboard, with a red temp indicator appearing intermittently

Immediately pull over and shut down.

Oil temp which I've got displayed on the maxidot all the time, showed 105 degrees, which is perfectly normal.
Water temp showed 90 and has never deviated from that at all.

Waited a few minutes, opened bonnet, checked coolant level - was under the minimum mark, but when I opened the filler a fraction to let the pressure equalise, there was a suction of air and the level bubbled back up to between Min & Max, which it usually does.

Everything seemed normal, switched on again, no warning lights, no bad smells, no leaks, no obvious symptoms, so limped the car gently back home and immediately plugged in the OBD11 dongle (I didn't have it, or the android pad in the car at the time).

Scanned full system - 2 controllers/3 errors showed up as faults.

13 - the cruise control unit - and 17, the dashboard.

The dashboard one I knew about - it is the missing databus message or some such thing, which is the error message for the traffic sign recognition. As soon as I clear that, it immediately shows back up again in the OBD error log, but doesn't re-display on the dashboard/maxidot.

The controller 13 was the concerning one..... it indicated brake temp overheat, and the second fault was another databus message missing (foolishly, I didn't think to take a snapshot of the faults).

The MOST concerning thing was - they were both dated 10th December.
The day of the happy-laps at Willowbank!

I don't recall seeing any warnings on the dash as I was driving around the circuit, and I was eagle-eyed on the dash the whole time looking for exactly that - indications of something wrong with the car.

Since 10th Dec, I've been on holiday in Tasmania enjoying the cold.... and the car has been parked at the airport.

Now - 2 days after arriving back home, this warning decides to display on the dashboard.

So... I've cleared the faults, as they obviously relate to racing around the track like a lunatic.... BUT.... why did it take 3-4 days to actually display on my dash as an error/fault (leaving out the 7 days the car was switched off)?

And a secondary question - in the OBD11 app, it has a listing for "unlearning counter"...... some errors have 164, some have 160 or other similar numbers.
What are these counters? Is this how the dealer will know that someone has been checking/clearing fault codes?
Because I don't want to go clearing too many of these superfluous codes that have been caused by myself fiddling around activating little bits and pieces using VCDS/OBD long coding...... if the dealer is going to end up asking questions.....

[HPRS230]

it indicated brake temp overheat..

Thats cool mate,
I wonder if you can see the Disc and /or Fluid Temps live? via OBD/VCDS.

[DV52]

Spinifex: It's a pity that you didn't keep a copy of the Trouble Codes - so we could talk about the specifics of your car! Anyhow, here's a sample Trouble code from an OBD11 dongle (entirely unrelated to yours) that will serve as a reference for my explanation:

08 Air Conditioning

    System description: Climatronic  
    Software number: 5G0907044BD
    Software version: 1001
    Hardware number: 5G0907044BD
    Hardware version: H03
    ODX name: EV_ACClimaBHBVW37X
    ODX version: 004131
    Long coding: 00020004200100000005000012111402

    Trouble codes: 
        U112100 - Databus missing message
            Intermittent
                Malfunction frequency counter: 2
                Date: 2016-09-29 13:09:56
                Mileage: 35021 km
                Unlearning counter: 198
                Priority: 6

So- the section above happens to be from an air conditioning module, but this fact is unimportant. What is important is the date for the Trouble code - which as you say, indicates the date when the control module FIRST registered the error. However, the other important aspect of the Trouble code is the entry for Malfunction frequency counter: - which in this instance has the value 2. What this means is that the fault "U112100 - Databus missing message" has happened in two separate ignition sequences since first being registered on the Date shown.

So, I suspect that whilst the initial error may have happened at your race meeting, a second identical Trouble code has been registered on the same module. If you had noticed the Malfunction frequency counter on your Trouble code(s), I suspect that the value would have been higher than one. Because you have been able to clear the Trouble codes, I further suspect that the error was intermittent.

So, the errors didn't take 3-4 days to register - they would have been registered immediately when they occurred - I suspect with the noise and excitement of the race day, you just didn't see them until a second, identical Trouble code appeared later - I'm guessing, of course!

As to your question about the Unlearning counter: entry - this is a number that is allocated by the boffins @ VW for each Trouble code. It's a different number for each type of fault. The Unlearning counter is the number of ignition cycles (Terminal 15 ON/OFF sequences) that must happen without the same error being registered to automatically clear the Trouble code. It happens to be 198 ignition cycles in the Trouble code above.

Don

[Spinifex]

Don - thank you so much for your clear explanation. That's awesome!

many of the trouble codes I've looked at (unimportant things like the common window winders not always being "automatic" issue, the traffic recognition error, etc, have unlearning counters of 160 or 164 from memory - seem to be arbitrary numbers for VAG to choose but the explanation makes sense.

I was worried it was some sort of clear-counter sequence, so the dealers can tell I've been poking around in there clearing superfluous error codes!

As for the trouble codes I received, I'll have another look at the notepad when I scanned the system with the dongle.... pretty sure I clicked the google search buttons on each error and the codes might still be displayed in the browser.

Of course, I foolishly didn't take a screenshot of the full OBD app display like your example above, so I don't recall how many occurrences of the brake overheat was logged.

If it WAS two occasions, it's quite disconcerting, as yesterday, I literally barely drove over 60 all day, and the ACC cruise wasn't activated and doing a lot of auto-braking..... and handbrake definitely wasn't left on. So unsure how or why they would have overheated again yesterday.... curious.

Will report the error codes if I can find them again

[Spinifex]

Ok found one of them - not sure if this is the brake temp code or the traffic recognition code.... but it was U112300.
The ross tech wiki doesn't list this code so I'm unsure what it is ....

[Spinifex]

Third question - what is the "priority" number in those OBD11 fault scans?

I can understand what the word means... but what do the numbers mean?

I assume a priority 1 code would be an immediate red-warning on dash and "pull over, stop car, check pants, pray for the VAG Gods to be kind today" type of thing? And something like the priority 6 event in Don's example image, is just an internal error message that isn't of too much concern?

But what's the scale of numbers? 6 seems like quite a few intermediate priority levels for an error..... how explicitly different can an "urgent" versus "superfluous" error message be?

[DV52]

^^^ Spinifex: Yes, you are perfectly correct -priority is indeed VW's interpretation of the severity of the error message with level 1 being highest priority. I've never seen a decoding sheet explaining the precise definitions of the various levels - perhaps someone else here can help?

But as I intimated - and failed to say outright in my previous response - Trouble code variables shouldn't be read in isolation. Each variable adds to the jig-saw puzzle, but it's the "whole-picture" that's important! I've seen lot's of priority 1 trouble codes with a status "intermittent". Taking a vehicle to the dealer in this circumstance is likely to result in the dealer clearing the codes and suggesting that you return when the problem reappears, or when the code status changes to permanent!

In regard to your previous response, it is not necessary for you to take a picture of any future trouble codes. OBD11 has an inbuilt facility that allows the user to send himself/herself an electronic version of the scan report

So, I respectfully suggest that you do the following when next scanning your car:

1. Open the OBD11 software and press Connect
2. Press Scan and wait for the process to complete
3. On the "Faults" screen press the Envelope symbol (upper RHS) which should open the email app on your tablet/mobile phone
4. Send yourself a copy of the scan results

I've enclosed below a "visual" version of these instructions which was taken from my test-bench, which contains multiple trouble codes across nearly all the modules -hence the errors. The test-bench is an artificial environment that I use to learn about OBD networks -it is a small group of control modules wired together and running off a 12 volt regulated supply - my "virtual" Golf mk7. However, because it's not a complete car - there are numerous trouble codes (which is perfectly OK and a positive advantage for my purposes)

Don

[Spinifex]

Thanks Don - I'd never noticed the envelope email symbol previously, but discovered it while poking around yesterday, so I emailed myself the databus message fault, from the traffic recognition error.

After clearing the brake-overheat errors, they haven't reappeared, and interestingly, they also don't appear in the "history" button either!
I assumed that clearing the code wouldn't necessarily clear the history of it occurring?
However, the only things that seem to show up in OBD when I check the history of any control unit, is any coding changes I've made - which is perfectly understandable, but a little annoying that fault-codes aren't also included. I guess it's down to the user to always email the faults to themselves, to keep a history.

Annoyingly though - driving yesterday, another warning red-triangle appeared indicating check coolant.
Again, immediately pulled over to discover the coolant well underneath the minimum level..... did an immediate scan while the car cooled down and NO fault codes came up on the OBD dongle, except the persistent traffic recognition dashboard error !!! WTF !!!

When I gently released the pressure on the coolant reservoir cap, it did the normal bubbling thing as the pressure equalised and the coolant level popped back up to sit smack in the middle of Min & Max !!!
Gave the coolant a good smell, it smelt a bit oily (but that's normal considering the previous oil-cooler failure this car had) but no more oily than it has been since the repair...... the oil filler cap was normal and not milky or bubbly, so no indication of head-gasket failure..... so tightened everything back up again and continued on my way!

I'm quite concerned that I'm now getting these intermittent and seemingly superfluous errors popping up on the dashboard, when there's obviously no reason for them to occur.... and then not-displaying when doing a system scan for faults......

Can anybody explain or put my mind at ease please?

[HPRS230]

Re brake Temp High, As you know, the 220's use the brakes as a diff XDL, so that will be why that alarm came on.

I have updated another 220 to Medium *normally standard.
I also updated my diff to Strong *normally standard.

From Mk7 DV52
Anyhow, if Expanded electronic differential lock is present in your Adaptation channel list, it will have allowable settings like “Standard" (default for mk7), “Not activated”, “Weak”, “Medium”, “Strong”

[DV52]

Thanks

Can anybody explain or put my mind at ease please?

Spinifex: Hi-again. I'm really not stalking you - it's just that you seem to ask the most interesting questions!!

First- It's perfectly normal for Trouble Codes (or what VCDS calls "Diagnostic Trouble Codes" -DTCs) to not appear in the history file. When you press the "clear DTC" button (trashcan in OBD11) you do exactly that -it's cleared from memory, never to be accessed again. So, if you want to keep a record of a DTC, then do so BEFORE it's deleted (perhaps using the scan report screen-shots above)!

Second - you purchased your 2016 Skoda Octavia 162TSI RS Wagon in late September this year, so this is the 1st summer that you have had the car. The DTC's that you have identified are all heat related - this might suggest that the intermittent faults are a seasonal thing (just guessing). But, as the saying goes;"a single swallow does not a summer make" - it might be just a coincidence, or what mathematicians call "clustering" (I hope. so). Something to keep watching- rather than something to worry about!

Don

[Spinifex]

Yep thanks Don. Fully understood regarding the ambient temperature - but by concern is that it's a red warning "pull over immediately and switch off engine" rather than just an orange warning "hey dude, your coolant is a little low, check it when you get home" kinda thing!

And the main thing is, when I immediately scanned following the red warning, there were no codes at all in OBD or on the maxidot warning screen.

And Merry Christmas everybody!!!