Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[Greg Roles]

Meh, they could just flog off Porsche to Hyundai for a billion.

[PerthMTB]

In the absence of a statement from VW Australia (poor form guys - get your act together!) would Bluey and others that seem to know what they are talking about please clarify a few things for me...

As I understand it VW sells the older Euro V compliant diesel engines in Oz, and they only have a DPF fitted for particulate reduction, no SCR or EGR for Nox reduction because Oz regulations aren't that stringent, and they can meet them without needing expensive extra pollution reduction technology, or for that matter needing to use the "cheat" software.

Is this the case?

If so, then unlike Europe and the US where removing the cheat software will mean VW need to de-tune the performance and/or fit extra pollution control devices to meet the emissions standards, here in Oz nothing would need to be done.

Have I got that right?

Of course, a definitive statement for VW Oz would be nice, instead of us having to speculate like this ourselves!

[kaanage]

An interesting piece on the industry-wide history of cheating regulations
Volkswagen Test Rigging Follows a Long Auto Industry Pattern

[Sumodog68]

Makes perfect sense that the scrutiny would eventually shift to ALL VW diesel engine variants and possibly to ALL German diesels.

*START RANT*
However, I did not purchase a VW because of its green credentials. Far from it. I bought a VW because it's a nice car. It looks good, is a very comfortable cruiser and gets great mileage. I can get up to 1,250km out of a 65L tank of diesel without even trying too hard. What's not to like???

I could not give a rat's whether or not the (supposedly) massive volume of poisonous emissions from every litre of diesel I burn is turning a patch of the Amazon into wasteland, causing whales to beach themselves or even asphyxiating Baz the houso on Bludger St. Oh PULEEZE!

I'm stoked with my car's performance. I don't care what it's belching out behind me on the road.
*END RANT*

I smell potential class actions in various regions of the world if VW's fix adversely affects the performance, economy and maintenance costs of the suspect diesel powered vehicles.

I would probably sign up to the lawsuit if things go that way.

Don't care what your car is belching out behind you ? You bought a perfect car

[Transporter]

Meh, they could just flog off Porsche to Hyundai for a billion.

Nah, it's not needed. The worst case scenario; it will just delay their entry into F1.

[bluey]

Not sure if this problem extends beyond USA, poor fuel and strict EPA regs.

Self Study Program 826803 2.0 Liter TDI Common Rail BIN5 ULEV Engine form 2008 shows that "to attain the BIN5/LEV2 emission level, an efficient system for exhaust gas after-treatment is required. The NOx storage catalyst is used to supplement the particulate filter system. [...] The enhancement of the exhaust after-treatment system with a NOx storage catalytic converter requires the introduction of new regeneration modes to ensure NOx conversion throughout the storage unit’s service life."

Anybody know a definitive source of which CR 2.0L engines are EA189?

EA189 comes sometime during the life of the Common Rail 2.0L diesel, until the EA288 Modular Diesel Matrix (MDB) in 2015. (Self Study Program 820433 The EA288 Diesel Engine Family).

Both these documents show both high pressure EGR (exhaust manifold to intake) and low pressure EGR (exhaust after turbo to intake).

The SSP documents are well worth a look.

I understood pretty much all engines (petrol and diesel) have EGR to reduce NOX.

The ICCT study from German car data showed no issue with the VW vehicle to euro spec with euro diesel.

[Guest001]

Read this How they really got caught

How Volkswagen's diesel duping was caught | Stuff.co.nz

[bluey]

Nah, it's not needed. The worst case scenario; it will just delay their entry into F1.

Can't see that it would delay F1 entry - the cost is peanuts compared to the EPA action. And they need the positive PR value of F1.

Curious - what emissions do F1 cars produce????

[Transporter]

Can't see that it would delay F1 entry - the cost is peanuts compared to the EPA action. And they need the positive PR value of F1.

Curious - what emissions do F1 cars produce????

Not exactly peanuts, but yeah less than the fine they possibly facing.

Or their made petrol gazlers, or, the fires burning in California every year.

[asa572]

I'm copping it at work, do you think I could sue VW for being harassed?

[bluey]

Not exactly peanuts, but yeah less than the fine they possibly facing.[...]

€200-250M vs the $9B they have put aside to cover the cost of making good the EPA case.

[coastvw]

I guess very lucky the question is not around CO2, given the British govt tax system for company cars revolves around kgs of CO2 produced. If that figure was in question the number would then be the British Govt chasing for tax evasion

[bluey]

Found a list of EA189 and EA288 engines. Does a specific engine code have a matching ECU for all markets??

VAG Admit Cheating Diesel Emmissions... | Audi-Sport.net

1.6 TDI CR GreenLine 77 kW 2010–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)
1.6 TDI CR 77 kW 2013–2015 CAYC (EA189) 1598 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2009–2015 CFHF (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2015- (EA28 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 81 kW 2015- (EA28 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 81 kW (110 PS; 107 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2011– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2009– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 103 kW 2010– CFHC (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 103 kW (140 PS; 138 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 110 kW 2015– (EA28 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 110 kW (150 PS; 148 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 110 kW 2015– (EA28 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 110 kW (150 PS; 148 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2010–2015 CFJA (EA189)) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)
2.0 TDI CR 125 kW 2013–2015 CFJA (EA189) 1968 ccm, I4, 16V DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged 125 kW (170 PS; 168 hp)


The remaining question is how they perform/test running our diesel vs our standards.

Australia emissions NOX limits for diesel (CI) passenger cars (category M)
(https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012C00284/Download)
Pre 2013 (euro4) 250mg/km
Post 2013 (euro5) 180mg/km

The ICCT test of euro6 vehicles showed nearly all would pass euro5 levels in the real world test (euro6 wanting 80mg/km and mooted by ICCT to be changed to double that for a few more year because no vehicles comply).

[Sunny43.5]

hmmm steam versus diesel .

[wai]

It's not so much that whether our standards are as severe as the US standards they've been caught out on, but that the whether with the defeat device in operation, that configuration met our standards.

Quite frankly, it might well be a case of all software being updated after being certified.