Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[arcadelt]

If I go onto a landy forum there will be no person nitpicking a post about vehicle issues but there will be lots of solutions offered and suggestions of where to look. You have experienced mechanics saying XYZ will be worn faster if you change ABC and helping people as well as spreading the knowledge.
Why is it the opposite with this issue in VW land?

frantic, there are plenty of people offering advice on VWs similar to what you describe in other threads, and certainly on forums dedicated to air cooled VWs which have a longer history. I suspect no one is offering the advice you are after here is because very few people would want to conjecture while the issue is still bubbling along and, moreso, because that is not the topic of this area of the forum and especially this thread. If you asked some of your questions in the diesel area or the area specific to the model you are interested in, I bet lively discussions, such as the ones you have applauded in the Landy forum, would result.

[Rawcpoppa]

1.6L and 2.0L fix put forward by VW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKN8danpIfE

[Bayman]

To join VW Class Action or not to join

Tomorrow the 27th November is the last day I am advised to appoint Maurice Blackburn as Lawyers in joining their Class Action.
So much is unknown considering the so called fix now released being a mere software upgrade for the 2.0l Diesel engine. Based on this fix, it would be fair to say once the whole scenario has washed through the motor trade, will Class Action members be really out of pocket to the extent that they receive any compensation after any win in the courts. At the moment I have heard most if not all car dealers (excluding VW Group dealers) will not touch a VW Diesel for a trade in or offer SFA at the worst, so yes atm, there is a financial loss incurred.

Reading all the legal mumbo from Maurice Blackburn re the retainer, and with a lack of trust in lawyers for not ripping clients off, can anyone shed some light or have they had legal advice as to what to do, submit the retainer and join in?

[Amalgam]

1.6L and 2.0L fix put forward by VW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKN8danpIfE

On another thread, I have called Shenanigans

A software update for the 2.0 and a AUD15 piece of plastic and software update for the 1.6 all engineered within 2 months, with the associated AUD15 Billion fines, lawsuits, drop in share price/market cap, and loss of integrity.

If it was so easy, why did it take 7 years??

I appreciate that sometimes a product isn't fully baked but need to be pushed out to meet a release date, but surely a simple software update and a plastic mesh can be released as a service bulletin before you are caught with your pants gaffer taped to your ankles.

[Elmura]

On another thread, I have called Shenanigans

A software update for the 2.0 and a AUD15 piece of plastic and software update for the 1.6 all engineered within 2 months, with the associated AUD15 Billion fines, lawsuits, drop in share price/market cap, and loss of integrity.

If it was so easy, why did it take 7 years??

I appreciate that sometimes a product isn't fully baked but need to be pushed out to meet a release date, but surely a simple software update and a plastic mesh can be released as a service bulletin before you are caught with your pants gaffer taped to your ankles.

Coz nobody pulled them up on it... Look into the investigation and you'll read that those in VW who knew about the cheat didn't alert those who would do something about it.

PS - The plastic mesh creates a laminar air flow (straightens the flow over the MAF sensor) to get a more accurate reading at different loads / engine speeds / air temperature etc. This will work with the new software map to increase the amount of fuel injected in some circumstances, alter the timing of the injection to keep the temperature lower, and use more EGR

[Elmura]

In response to Frantic’ s misleading comments (and, I’llkeep it toned down):

1. Provide evidence that your vehicle, or in fact,any Australian VW vehicle has lost value of between $7000 and $10000. Yourcomments were generalised across the whole VW range. My MY12 Passat CC Petrol has had $2000 drop in market value since April. Your 2010 103 TDI Multivan is still sitting pretty too at 50% RRP…. You need to stop the BS
2. Your references to another forum being accepting of exaggerated comments then complaining that this forum member’s “nitpick; are delusional; need to come to grips with reality, deceive”. But the simple factis, if you posted a query for advice, you will get help and gain knowledge. Mostof your posts are not queries but rather, your exaggerated negative interpretation of reality.
3. You attack & insinuate anybody who is arguing against your comments that they are employees of VW or work in a VW service industry. Maybe you should divulge your employment – do you work for a legal firm??? Maybe you should divulge the real reason you’ve come back to this forum after years of silence, only to post numerous negative comments in this particular thread.

[Ryeman]

I thought MAFs were the honeycomb style and ensured lamina flow.
and
The fix seems so simple you have to ask why cheat.

[Guest001]

Tomorrow the 27th November is the last day I am advised to appoint Maurice Blackburn as Lawyers in joining their Class Action.
So much is unknown considering the so called fix now released being a mere software upgrade for the 2.0l Diesel engine. Based on this fix, it would be fair to say once the whole scenario has washed through the motor trade, will Class Action members be really out of pocket to the extent that they receive any compensation after any win in the courts. At the moment I have heard most if not all car dealers (excluding VW Group dealers) will not touch a VW Diesel for a trade in or offer SFA at the worst, so yes atm, there is a financial loss incurred.

Reading all the legal mumbo from Maurice Blackburn re the retainer, and with a lack of trust in lawyers for not ripping clients off, can anyone shed some light or have they had legal advice as to what to do, submit the retainer and join in?

I have joined and asked for clarification of things. Can only say so much but basically they run the claim at their expense. If we win they take a % of probably under 25% all up. Also if VW have to pay our legal costs whatever winnings wont have costs deducted from it. If they lose THEY WEAR THE COSTS. We dont have to pay a penny. Thats what I was told.
How much we get is an absolute unknown but anything is better than nothing.

[VW Convert]

How much we get is an absolute unknown but anything is better than nothing.

This is an interesting point.

I'm fairly sure I saw the figure of $10,000 per vehicle mentioned as being the amount being claimed. Of course this is a starting point only, but one would have to think that a fixed amount per vehicle would be grossly unfair. An owner who drove a brand new $65,000 CC diesel out of the showroom the day before the issue became public must surely be wearing a significantly greater loss in terms of resale value than say the owner of a $25,000 (when new) 2008 Golf with 150,000 KM on the clock.

Have Maurice Blackburn given any more detail on how they would anticipate this panning out?

Cheers

George

[arcadelt]

...but anything is better than nothing.

Sometimes, Hillbilly, nothing is better than something, if that something has detrimental conditions and clauses attached. However, given the video on the fix I am now seriously considering joining the class action, because like others I cannot believe that a company and its officers would be so stupid to risk billions in shareholder value and customer goodwill when the fix was so simple. It really makes me wonder what is actually going on under the public affairs spin, especially in regards to the regulatory negotiations, and perhaps class actions are the best way to get to the bottom of it all and not see the millions of individual consumers the only ones standing at the end of this high-stakes game of musical chairs.

[Cossor]

Coz nobody pulled them up on it... Look into the investigation and you'll read that those in VW who knew about the cheat didn't alert those who would do something about it.

PS - The plastic mesh creates a laminar air flow (straightens the flow over the MAF sensor) to get a more accurate reading at different loads / engine speeds / air temperature etc. This will work with the new software map to increase the amount of fuel injected in some circumstances, alter the timing of the injection to keep the temperature lower, and use more EGR

I wonder if the same technique is being used on current Euro 6 diesels?
But hey, if measurement of air temp is so critical what happens if driving in Darwin summertime, then later At Thredbo in winter? Can the software map cope with such dramatic changes?
Or, for that matter, New York in winter and Texas in summer

[Bayman]

This is an interesting point.



Have Maurice Blackburn given any more detail on how they would anticipate this panning out?

Cheers

George

With some knowledge of other class actions, I'd say MB would have claimants in categories and if any pool of money was obtained, the slicing of the cake would sort who gets what. So I would guess the older the vehicle the less they could claim in terms of resale value loss. I dare say MB could claim our time value in returning the vehicle for the software patch as it is a repair of a fraudulent nature not an engineering unforeseen error. This is where MB will charge each and everyone a fee (from the courts compensation won)to administer the disbursements. Whether as retaining MB as lawyers is over and above a court ruling on VWA to compensate all VW owners is another thing.

Today's news that VWG have not organised any response is just typical that the company is not really treating these class actions with any seriousness, so the ACCC and the Federal Courts may well stick the boot in next round in December.

[Eaglen00b]

This is an interesting point.

I'm fairly sure I saw the figure of $10,000 per vehicle mentioned as being the amount being claimed. Of course this is a starting point only, but one would have to think that a fixed amount per vehicle would be grossly unfair. An owner who drove a brand new $65,000 CC diesel out of the showroom the day before the issue became public must surely be wearing a significantly greater loss in terms of resale value than say the owner of a $25,000 (when new) 2008 Golf with 150,000 KM on the clock.

Have Maurice Blackburn given any more detail on how they would anticipate this panning out?

Cheers

George

IIRC BL are pursuing VW's Australian operations only, whereas MB are going after Volkswagen AG Deustchland as well as VW Aust. Not sure where you got the $10k figure from though....

Signed up today too. Sorry VW, I gotta look out for #1.

[Guest001]

This is an interesting point.

I'm fairly sure I saw the figure of $10,000 per vehicle mentioned as being the amount being claimed. Of course this is a starting point only, but one would have to think that a fixed amount per vehicle would be grossly unfair. An owner who drove a brand new $65,000 CC diesel out of the showroom the day before the issue became public must surely be wearing a significantly greater loss in terms of resale value than say the owner of a $25,000 (when new) 2008 Golf with 150,000 KM on the clock.

Have Maurice Blackburn given any more detail on how they would anticipate this panning out?

Cheers

George

Unless they have a crystal ball I dont think anyone does. May depend on whether the Judges corns are hurting or not if you get what I mean. MB are hopeful of a settlement but they would say that wouldnt they.

A long way to go and a lot of argy bargy before anything happens As I said $10,000 was a supposition from one of the 99% who have made them in this thread and others. Why would a lawyer make a public statement about such a low figure. With costs running into the millions they will be adding a fair few zeros on to that amount. Plus hitting VW up for their costs if we win.

Its wait and see and trust they know what they are doing Seems they are fairly successful at this type of claim.


Have just this minute received the Email from VW confirming the fixes already published It does also say no decrease of performance or increase in fuel consumption are expected

[Amalgam]

For the avoidance of doubt, let me state that I like my Passat 125TDI and plan to keep it several more years, I have not joined any class action, and I am unlikely to undertake any recall fix.

Coz nobody pulled them up on it...

I can think of at least 15 Billion reasons to implement a fix via a service bulletin.

Look into the investigation and you'll read that those in VW who knew about the cheat didn't alert those who would do something about it.

If you were a well paid engineer at a prestigious car company, would you seriously deploy any cheat device without approval from the not just your managers but from the very top, and risk

1/ a multi billion euro lawsuit ( let's face it your employer would come after you, not to reclaim damages because you are probably not a multi billionaire, but to redirect blame ).

2/ being permanently unemployable. The motor vehicle industry is a very small universe. What might be your chances of remaining employed at VAG or if you were lucky or smart enough to move to BMW, Daimler Benz, VM Motori et al after your cheat device was detected?

If you were the person ( engineer or manager or CEO ) who authorised the deployment of this cheat device, why wouldn't you insist upon / have the authority to push out the fix as a service bulletin? You might get away undetected with a few months production, especially if you push out the service bulletin as soon as a solution was available, but 7 years production of one of your top selling vehicle, from the second largest car manufacturer in the world, amounting to millions of cars is tantamount to playing Russian Roulette with ALL the chambers loaded.

...and use more EGR

And that is what I am worried about.