Drive belt failure one month after Service

[Yarrara]

Hi,

Yesterday, I was one of the most unpopular people in Sydney. About 3pm, in heavy traffic, my 4yo Multivan 'clunked' loudly and subsequently broke down in an on-ramp to the Sydney harbour bridge, blocking that lane. Wow, was I popular! Thankfully the RMS appeared a few minutes later and towed me away.

Eventually I got another tow to the VW dealership which did the 75k/60 month service one month ago. Today, they call me with the diagnosis- snapped drive belt and when they manually rotate the engine, it will not turn a full rotation and they will have to start taking things apart for further investigation . I asked whether the belt was checked as part of their service. They said yes, but something sharp could have come up off the road and damaged the belt causing the failure.

I would like to know whether this is possible/likely or if the dealership is deflecting blame from not carrying out the service correctly. Can anyone advise?

Thanks for any assistance.

Chris

[Umai Naa!!]

Known fault on these. The accessory belt can get fed into the small gap between the crankshaft pulley and the bottom timing belt cover. It causes the timing belt to slip, which in turn causes internal damage to the engine.

[Sunny43.5]

As this is a known issue I read on the Brickyard that VW have retro fitted a part to prevent this from happening , now not sure if its been fitted as standard or maybe as part of quiet service campaign . Like Umai says it is a known fault I would be hitting VW up for repairs , don't fall for that cock and bull story about something flying up at that very spot and cutting the belt what a load of codswollop .

[Yarrara]

OK. The guy at the dealership did talk about getting 'goodwill' from VW to cover the cost of parts- which I did not quite understand. Why would VW give away spare parts? However a known fault would explain their generosity. Is there anything I can reference to help persuade them to get VW to pay for this in full?

[volksMuller]

Chris your best approach is letting the service manager know you are aware of a known fault,request assistance from vw head office as explained on goodwill gesture.Our company is aware of several successful claims and all comes down to the way you position your request . Happy to give free advice over the phone, [96792900] we at volksmuller carry the modified version belt cover and always check both Amarok/T5 at service interval. This service rectification is low cost in comparison to expensive engine damage,honestly the dealer should of given you a choice at service time to replace the cover if they really cared !!!!and valued you as their customer.

[grtuned]

Is the poly V drive belt required to be changed at that service interval? How is it the dealers or mechanics fault. Maybe it was checked and there were no signs of wear or cracks in the belt. I normally quote them when the timing belt is replaced at 100,00-120,000 km that's seems to be the time most workshops an dealers suggest.
If the belt failed for whatever reason how can you all blame the mechanic or the dealer for not being Nostradamus and predicting the future. This is also not a known fault for the belt to break they can break anytime!! Who even knows if something else caused belt to fail possibly a roller seized? its a known issue that the belt may get caught In between crank pulley and cover when it breaks!! This part prevents this from occurring. Nothing worse for an owner than when a car breaks down but it's not always the Mechanics fault. If someone knows proper interval service for poly V belt please post.

[Transporter]

Is the poly V drive belt required to be changed at that service interval? How is it the dealers or mechanics fault. Maybe it was checked and there were no signs of wear or cracks in the belt. I normally quote them when the timing belt is replaced at 100,00-120,000 km that's seems to be the time most workshops an dealers suggest.
If the belt failed for whatever reason how can you all blame the mechanic or the dealer for not being Nostradamus and predicting the future. This is also not a known fault for the belt to break they can break anytime!! Who even knows if something else caused belt to fail possibly a roller seized? its a known issue that the belt may get caught In between crank pulley and cover when it breaks!! This part prevents this from occurring. Nothing worse for an owner than when a car breaks down but it's not always the Mechanics fault. If someone knows proper interval service for poly V belt please post.

What they mean is that VW know that this is happening, btw, not every engine (t.belt cover) is designed in such way that the accessories belt can get inside the timing belt area. VW knows that and they should do more about that. Perhaps a recall would be better than putting the car owners in an unpleasant situations. But, if the cost of recall is greater than the occasional engine failure, I'd expect that they cover the cost of the breakdowns completely including paying for the transport and accomodation if one is on holidays.

Though I can here what you try to say. Most people always blame mechanic when something goes wrong. Also, many just don't want to pay for more than a bare minimum, but expect that you remove and inspect every part under the magnifying glass when you service their car, especially when the car broke down. Many also disregard the report they get after the service and often thinking that we're just after their money.
Finding the cheapest place where to get the car serviced is a very common topic through the Internet forums. But, when the things go south, they've always expected nothing else but the high quality jobs.
The end of Sunday rant.

[Sunny43.5]

I sort of agree with grtuned but only up to a point , yes sometimes we like to blame the mechanics whoops technicians is what they are called today . But more often the blame should be aimed at the manufacturer because they do not understand local issues , this relates to climate and driving conditions . Now here is my opinion on this one' whilst VW do testing on their cars I do not believe they take into consideration Australia's dramatic conditions . Ok they built the Tiptronic in the first T5 and made the claim Sealed for Life , so in summer when the temps are in the high 30's to 40's what happens to the auto fluid as there is NO external cooler for the auto fluid it burns and decays .Seems VW learnt from that one too late by changing procedures for the DSG as they declared Australia a " Hot Climate Country " in 2010 . Our cars are RH drive who was the brilliant designer who placed the diesel fuel cooler under the passengers side floor directly behind the front wheel in the only space not protected from rocks being thrown up by that same wheel which is going to go offroad first ? And now it seems that because the under body engine cover which was standard on the T4 and early T5's was also deleted , this is being attributed according to this guys dealer was the cause of the failure or maybe just maybe the rubber compound of the belt does not stack up to our conditions . Food for thought methinks .

[volksMuller]

The real point here is experience, a trained tech should know what to check....hence a cheap service at a local service centre that are not specialists will over look a check point from the pure fact of poor knowledge . A dealership knows through TPI"s a modified lower timing belt cover will greatly reduce a risk of cylinder head damage. I agree forums can drive a price related service to service centres who really
1.have limited knowledge or product training
2. not well equipped
3. use inferior quality parts

All the above are related to what a independent service centre sets as a fair market price, sure people compare a japanese car service to VAG product and think they are getting ripped off....BUT are they really ? servicing a toyota corolla is basic....service a v10 Touareg R50 and way more knowledge and experience is required on the product this is a real cost that needs to be passed onto the customer. Thanks to Ultra Tune and the likes who service at $149.00 seriously what do you expect...with labour charges and product cost / quality HOW long does your car sit on a hoist for ....15min max. This is what sets market perception on service price,how can a business invest in tools/knowledge when the earn is less than wages!!!! this just drives the quality down .

The real fault falls on the uneducated customer who firstly doesn't know what effort and costs are truly involved to become a reputable service centre...secondly a customer who walks away and says this is the best mechanic and broadcasts this fact...who really doesn't know himself what should have been done at that service interval in the first place BUT it was cheaper than every one else. This mentality is dangerous , in life you get what you pay for.!
Supporting a local reputable independent VAG service centre / persons ensures your car receives the care and attention required,after all most of us are enthusiasts for the brand and thats why we are in the business in the first place.

[volksMuller]

Sunny.....accessory belt is a servicable item and should of been replaced at service interval.
point 2. all VAG auto transmissions have oil coolers...be it some where increased in size at later dates.
Not all under body trays we deleted on all model T5's either ...poverty pack models suffered firstly in this deletion,the tray is a water entry and noise suppression item.
VW rely on third party suppliers for many products, along with extensive testing.....all rubber style products have a operation and shelf life.
Finally the dealer should have known by pure fact of failures ,accessory belt and lower timing belt cover should have been inspected and or replaced. for under a hour labour cost ,$70 or so for the modified timing cover the customer should have ok'd the repair order had the consequence been explained....our company stock's these parts and customers ALWAYS give the go ahead once explained.
more food for thought.

[Sunny43.5]

Yes I know its a serviceable item but what is the recommended interval kilometres for the change ? According to my service booklet 120.000 kays so if it has failed at 70thou then there is something else wrong . Maybe we as owners should halve every service recommendation for Australia because VW do not seem to understand our climate still . Yes I like to rant as well as I have been on the end of VW design flaws with servicing both as mentioned above . Auto $8500 fuel cooler $750 intercooler circlips wear out quickly releasing the intercooler hose another huge cost [which I avoided ] by using my brain to fit a lifetime secure holding system. So when you add up several other repairs I deemed unnecessary because of design / procedure failures then I view this one with a degree of disdain as well . If I ever needed proof that overseas companies need reminding about our climate , I can say that the products I fit to cars made by a HUGE German company have failed because of our heat , luckily they recognised that fact and redesigned the product and went back over 15 years to replace that part free of charge . VW are not without fault with these failures but seem short on doing the right thing . END RANT .

[Transporter]

I have to agree with you. Not well designed and not good enough action taken to correct it.

The accessories belt service life could be as short as 50k-60k km, but many last over 100km. Also, you don't replace them as soon as the first crack in the ribs appears, they're allowed to have a number of cracks per 25mm length.

Designs like these completely defeat the purpose of the prolonged oil changes (12-24 months between services).

[grtuned]

Timing Belts < Genuine Parts: Product range < Genuine parts

I can't seem to find anywhere that informs owners of a poly v belt replacement interval
can anybody please advise if they know what are Volkswagens rules on this item.

[Umai Naa!!]

The poly-V, or accessory belt is a case of replace as necessary.

If it's badly cracked, or contaminated, bin it.

[jets]

The real fault falls on the uneducated customer who firstly doesn't know what effort and costs are truly involved to become a reputable service centre...secondly a customer who walks away and says this is the best mechanic and broadcasts this fact...who really doesn't know himself what should have been done at that service interval in the first place BUT it was cheaper than every one else. This mentality is dangerous , in life you get what you pay for.!

It is fairly obvious that most owners on a forum such as this one don't really know how to pick a good tech. so just pick the cheapest price.
In my opinion, one needs to ask questions of others in the same industries of who is really a good capable tradesperson.
I have almost always bought my cars secondhand [only twice in my lifetime bought new] & when I start to work I find screws missing/damaged, items reinstalled incorrectly etc.,etc. & that after a history of dealer service. Some say I am too fussy but I know in my heart that I like to see things done correctly.
I am considering knee surgery at the moment & it's no point in asking a bread maker or musician who will do a good job. Even my GP wouldn't know so I am guided by my friend's daughter who has worked in many surgeries with the surgeon that specialises in knee operations. She gave me a list of names with the one at the top who she would use if her dad needed an operation.
I think the building industry is full of cowboys after building two homes myself. I would have some work done at the present if I could find someone who I could trust to do good work.