Additional Child Safety Seat Top Tether Anchor Points T6 Caravelle

[fiox1]

Hi All,

I have a T6 Caravelle and need additional top tether points for the rear bench seat. Has anyone here had to add them. The anchor points will be located on the floor just behind the bench seat as per the image attached.



Any information would be appreciated.

Regards,

[Sunny43.5]

Have you looked in your owners manual supplementry for Australia , these days all non commerical classed vehilces like yours should have at least 3 anchor points from factory , some manufactureres put them in the roof above the rear seat you should see some removable plugs with a threaded hole inside .
Secondly and most important if there are no child anchor points in the van DO NOT just drill some holes and fit them yourself into the floor . Check in the carpet that there could be some precut holes where the anchor points might be , if not contact your local approved child restraint centre for the correct advise . I worked for 40 years installing child anchor points into a variety of van 4WDS and many others , there are some specific devices if there are none behind that seat . One is a C.R.A.B bar it bolts behind the rear seat usually level with the top of the seat back rest and can have 3 anchor points fitted . What most people don,t understand is if there are no factory points the back rests will not with stand the load applied by the child strap in the event of an accident , I have seen photos of seat backs that have been crushed downwards by the strap and the child received serious injuries . Untested seats will not be strong enough , check your manual please .

[fiox1]

Thank you for the reply. I am not considering just drilling holes. i am familiar with the CRAB bar, but was told it may also be possible to install in the floor.

I am not most people so I do understand the consequences of not having something properly tested. I am also familiar with the downward forces the seat will experience in a crash, therefore why I was asking if anyone else has had these installed.

There are 4 other tether points, but I need to use the back seat as well.

Regards,

[Sunny43.5]

Who ever told you you can drill holes in the floor is wrong , don,t get me wrong I was not belittling you but sometimes outside advice is very misleading . Yes the loads are enormous in the relm of 1.5 tons of load with 3 children in the rear seat , I don,t know how someone could have told you that without fully understanding the ramifications . Look when I was doing fittings etc the number of people who would turn up with their childrens top tether straps attached to the cargo load points in the floor which usually are only designed for around 40kg was astounding , they would not understand that their childrens lives were worth more than a few hundred dollars for an approved device . CRAB bar is the only option for that configuration , out of interest where are the other 4 points you mention and their positions on the seats etc .

[fiox1]

Sunny, I totally understand that the children's lives are priceless. This is the reason I am asking for advice regarding this. I approached a fitting station and they quoted me $3k just to test whether or not the floor fitment will work and not crush the seat back rest.

I had a look at the CRAB bar installation requirements and the way the Caravelle back seat is setup, the CRAB bar cannot be installed as it requires a minimum of 200mm distance from the back of the seat. There is maybe 100mm from the back of the seat to the rear tailgate.

The other 4 anchor points are on the other 4 seats (2 bench seats) and are hooks welded onto the tube part of the seat frame. As is I need a minimum of 5 anchor points so I am at a loss as to what can be done.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards

[Sunny43.5]

Ok now that you have told me where the other points are on the existing seats it makes it a bit easier to work a solution . Fitstly where are the two factory hooks on the very rear seat ? each side or one at the side and then one at middle . If they have gone to all the trouble to test the seat with just the two points on the rear seat and have placed them each side then I can see absolutley no reason to add a third one to the centre . You see the seat belts for the adults are built into the seat back already and each point would be built to withstand 1.5 tons per adult way below a childs weight . In that case you could then drill into the floor for the third point [ or mount it in a similar place to the originals on the seat frame ] , there is also whats called a TECH bar its a single anchor point which bolts onto the floor and has a single anchor point on the top as it has a riser to elevate the anchor point to be closer to the top of the seat back . Naturally if you want total legality an engineers report would be needed , NSW have different rules to QLD and you need that engineer to sign off on a modification , in Qld it only required a certified person to inspect and issue a modification plate for most jobs . If as you have explained there are already two maybe a call to VW Australia and explain whats needed they may be able to contact Germany to find more info .

[fiox1]

On the very back seat (3 seat bench seat) there are no anchor points at all. This is the issue. The four existing anchor points are on the two bench seats in front of the rear bench seat.

The Caravelle is a 9 seater with a total of 3 rows of seats in the passenger cabin.

I have drawn red ellipses to indicate the positions of the current top tether anchors. Please note that these are actually down low on the seat itself.

What I need is three additional anchor points as indicated by the blue ellipses.

What do you recommend?

Regards,

[Sunny43.5]

Ok your stuffed then , the Crab bar would have been the best option if it could be fitted satisfactorily , The position behind the seat back rest is restrictive as you have to allow for the buckle and adjuster . Have you been to a second place for an opinion on the distance issue ? and yes if you wanted to use the seat frame as an anchor point it would require testing or at least a report from the manufacturers to see if they have load test done or specifications . As I said earlier if the seat belt anchor points are in the middle then there could be a remote possibility that the back rest may stand the loads but an engineer would need to be satisfied that it was strong enough .Just a quick one can the seat be slid further forward to make the extra distance required ?

[The_Hawk]

Just thinking out loud here, is there any way to retrofit the top seat components from a Multivan 3 seat bench (which has three anchor points integrated) onto the lower mounting parts from the Caravelle?

[Sunny43.5]

Interesting idea the main issue with that idea and this is without seeing one in the flesh is floor mounts . All loads for seats and seatbelts child anchors are tested on the actual place the seat is anchored to on the floor along with backrest as well , the Multi seat must be different to the Caravelle or are the seat numbers different ie 7 seat not 9 .

[The_Hawk]

I added an image above from our van showing the mountings from the Multi. Yes it's a completely different floor mounting system, and I understand this would be in no way a tested configuration, but if the seat and backrest share a common bolt pattern to the Caravelle frame it might well be something that could be easily fit and engineered given it's a completely self-contained system based on the same chassis.

[The_Hawk]

I've added the ETKA images where the connection between the base and the backrest look very very similar. While it might then require a retrim so it matches the rest of the vehicle, it does look like it might just be possible to fit at least the backrest if not all the parts.

[fiox1]

Ok your stuffed then , the Crab bar would have been the best option if it could be fitted satisfactorily , The position behind the seat back rest is restrictive as you have to allow for the buckle and adjuster . Have you been to a second place for an opinion on the distance issue ? and yes if you wanted to use the seat frame as an anchor point it would require testing or at least a report from the manufacturers to see if they have load test done or specifications . As I said earlier if the seat belt anchor points are in the middle then there could be a remote possibility that the back rest may stand the loads but an engineer would need to be satisfied that it was strong enough .Just a quick one can the seat be slid further forward to make the extra distance required ?

Good Sunday morning to all.

The distance issue with the CRAB bar is actually a design specification as set out by the RMS. I do not think talking to another installer will actually change anything.



The two seat belt anchor points for the latches are as per the image below. There is also a seat belt for the middle seating position that is attached to the back of the seat itself as well.



Unfortunately the seats in the Caravelle are fixed. It's the budget version of the Multivan. Come to think of it, they did a lot of things budget. I mean, who would have thought that the 9 seater may be used by a large family and may actually need tether anchors in the rear bench seat.

Come to think of it, my old T4 had a similar seat mounting frame as the T6, yet they had three top tether straps installed on it. Makes no sense what VW have done here.

Regards

[fiox1]

Hi The_Hawk,

Thank you for the pictures. I believe the picture you provided from your van is from an early model T5. Is that correct? The later models T5's and all T6's have the anchor points in the top half of the seat backrest.

Do you have the ETKA pictures for the later models?

I actually started stripping the back rest trim to see if there are any similarities to the Multivan seat. I'll have a better look today.

Regards,

[Sunny43.5]

Now as it has been some years since I surrendered my Qld Transport Officers certificate my memory of the weights is a bit hazy but this may be of some use . https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/ve...files/VSB5.pdf Now as there is an existing retractable seat belt in the middle position at the top then an engineer would be able to deduce if you can fit 3 tether points to the seat . Child seating loads is worked out in several categories depending on weight / age of child in each position , rememeber the seat it self has already been certified in its current state if the childs total weight is under the load for the adult in the middle position then you might be able to claim that its a safe option . Oh by the way VW do not make sense with lots of things they do , try and figure out why they decreed the T5,s auto should never need servicing in a country like Australia with our conditions it was a recipe for failure for sure [ I know this I still have evidence to prove my point ].