T4 drive train mystery - 2.5l 5 speed manual

[T4 hobart VW]

Greetings - its my first post so go easy on me please ... I'm new to water-cooled VW's.

I've recently purchased a T4 2.5l petrol 5 speed van - it has issues but most I'm able to sort.
It does however have an issue with the drive train - The engine runs fine but no powers getting through to the wheels.
I've done some homework and think I have it nutted down to two possible issues.
1) - if the clutch has stripped or broken in the centre spline then the power wouldn't get through to the wheels.
2) - if one of the CV's or an intermediate shaft in the diff is stripped then neither wheels would turn

Is there any short cuts to nutting out this issue ?
Is the T4 5 speed prone to powertrain issues ?

With the engine running and wheels up and no clutch depressed I can change gears with a positive feel to the stick - the wheels rotate but without any force and you can stop them with your hands. It feels like the centrifugal energy is dragging the drive train along. Wheels down I can't drive absolutely no power to the wheels !
Clutch seems to be working - well at least the pedal goes down with a positive feel no idea if its working the thrust release bearing but no weird noise from the bell housing however !
Checked gear linkages all look like they could do with a freshen up but seem to work fine !
Previous owner said the stick came out in his hands a couple of times but wasn't related to the current issue.

My moneys on the clutch but I don't know if they are prone to shearing the central spline ?!


I have stripped out the driver side CV and heading next to the passenger side trying to eliminate a broken/stripped CV - and then its on to removing the clutch.

Transmission is a CPV
Engine is a 81kw ACU
build date 09/95

any suggestions greatly appreciated.

also love any suggestions for T4 resources on line - I'm chasing a few parts.

Trying to think VW - its much harder than bee keeping !

[LogicprObe]

I never busted a drive shaft in my T4 but done a couple in my T5.
Had the driver's side CV collapse ...............and you certainly know it when that happens.
Also, the clutch tends to make a racket and be very difficult to change gears on the way out.........but it still goes!
Ripping the centre out of one.......well........you'd have to be doing burnouts or something, I'd reckon!

[Sunny43.5]

If it has the same sort of drive train as the T5 my money is on a stripped spline on the drive shaft .If you look here you can see the shafts with the worn spline and yes they will just let go without much warning . I was lucky as I could feel a strange slackness and backlash on acceleration and coasting . Scroll down to photos.2005 2.0 petrol manual T5 drive train spline question . I got my T5 ones from this place in Brisbane they were great to deal with .About Us – Australian CV

[T4 hobart VW]

Thanks for the intel the pic's show what I think is an intermediate or stub shaft that the T5 has and is prone to failure. - Ive done the preliminary removal stuff , mechanic friend suggested that a stuck on slave could also cause the problem so I removed the slave and while it was loaded a bit it didn't seem to engage the clutch.
Now down to the gearbox and diff removal - have devised a plan to hopefully lower the box out once its detached, I hear its a tad heavy.
Doesn't look like its going to clear the sub frame if the gearbox spline is long but the manual says it should just pull off ! Well everything else has come of with no hassle so I'm hoping its true.

So I'm now down to 2 possible causes - sheared clutch friction plate centre spline or a diff/gearbox issue !
My money is on the clutch cos its an easy fix and I know what I'm doing ...

well another day of grease but with more swearing I suspect !!!

[jets]

There is a couple of ways to remove the gearbox, the way you are doing, but some say it's easier to remove the engine & gearbox together after removing the front. The benefit of this method is that you can deal with any leaks at the rear of the motor. It is sometimes recommended to replace oil seals above oil filter either side of oil cooler.

[jets]

Is the T4 5 speed prone to powertrain issues ?
also love any suggestions for T4 resources on line - I'm chasing a few parts.

I am not aware of any issues.

What type of parts are you after?
I would try & buy any heavy parts like a clutch kit locally. I always get a quote from VW first as a datum.
Importing can be expensive for freight, even more so if you need to return the part.
I use a company called Imparts but they are trade only so you will need to use a friend's account. I don't know if there is a branch in Tas.
For small parts I have used VW Heritage a few times in the past & found them knowledgeable & easy to work with.

[Sunny43.5]

Like Jets said easier to remove the whole drive train , I did a complete engine transplant on my sons T4 2.4 diesel converted to 2.5 petrol during the process I was able to pull the motor out in a very short time on my own with a hired engine lift . The whole front of the van comes off with afew bolts naturally the coolant and hoses need to be disconnected and wiring .

[T4 hobart VW]

I looked at removing gearbox and engine together but as it has aircon I think I would need to gas down the aircon as the compressor would need to come out with the donk - my manual doesn't cover this ... let me know if I'm wrong please !!!

Had a VW mare last night - dreamed the differential was cactus ....

Will wait till the box is out but wondering if its worth a rebuild !

[Sunny43.5]

If its like a T5 the gearbox can be removed in situ but you need to loosen off the cross member under the car , its a heavy lump so you need a few helping hands to get the box out from underneath and the van needs to be high enough off the ground to allow for removal once on the ground . Yes you would need to degass the aircon as there is a coolant thing infront of the radiator .

[LogicprObe]

Pretty sure there'd be plenty of second hand boxes around at a reasonable price...............but if you have it out......you might as well put a new clutch in! (or at least a new thruster...........I might have made 400K except for that!)

[T4 hobart VW]

Thanks for all the suggestions - update on removal - Note to self .... perhaps the easiest way of removing the gearbox is with the engine attached !!!! Ive found that the driverside drive shaft housing snags on its support bracket on the back of the engine - best to undo the 2 lower bolts and tap the bracket up out of the way - remove the passenger side gearbox/diff mounting bracket as it stops the gearbox rotating. Remove the gearbox/engine mount it gives you more room to move. Oh and I finally got the obscure hex drive out of the engine side of the bell housing - its hidden behind the diff and not easy to get to !!!! The manual didn't mention this one I found it on the gearbox parts diagram and then spending 4 hours trying to get to it before working out it was a hex drive then it look a few minutes to undo !!!!
Its a very snug fit and unless all the 'stars' line up its a very frustrating shuffle.

Not looking forward to getting the box back in !

I'm going to replace the clutch regardless of its condition after going to the trouble of removing the gearbox I don't want to do it again in a hurry !

[jets]

Well done. Did you think to take any photos while dismantling? Your experience may help some of us in the future.

[T4 hobart VW]

Sorry no photo's but a few tips - if its your first T4 gearbox removal set aside a few days !

Not so obvious things to remove - left side engine mount , big round differential mount to crossmember, lower portion of the exhaust before the the catalytic converter and the well hidden torqex screw on the back of the clutch bell housing !!!!
Also remove the bolts from the 'intermediate' mounting bracket (the bit the driverside cv joint bolts onto ) AND loosen the mounting bracket it attaches too - take out the 2 lower bolts and gently tap the bracket towards the gearbox and it should swing out the way (I couldn't get to the top mounting bolt easily so this worked for me)
Perhaps the most important is undo the driver side engine mount with a jack in place under the sump this allows the entire engine to drop down and then the DIFF HOUSING can clear the crossmember - if you don't do this you will spend at least a day trying to work out how to rotate the gearbox clockwise trying to clear the sump housing and my experience says it can't clear it !!! REMEMBER that if you drop the engine you will stress any thing thats attached to the firewall so be very careful !
The engine moves forward about 50 mm and down around 40 mm this should allow the gearbox to clear all the snags ! Seems that a downward angle helps the gearbox slip out that and the rotation of the gear box clockwise by about 40mm !

I'm a little worried that it will be a utter nightmare to get back in so will update it once that happens !
Today its clean up the gearbox and remove the flywheel that needs honing - next week its all back together !

Interesting what you see when you stare at the engine long enough ! I've a couple of little jobs on the list to replace some worn pipework thats been rubbing for 290000km.

Would I do it again ...

Next time is out with the engine and gearbox - I didn't want to de gas the aircon so I though I would give it a crack but the amount of time it took would make me think twice next time. Having said that perhaps it would have been a lot quicker if I had done one before !

difficulty level - bit of a slog but its all about technique and process nothing to technical!
Of course up on a hoist would be so much easier and quicker!

Oh did I mention the couch was totally stuffed - so much so that the clutch plate was free in the pressure plate and didn't have any friction left at all - just enough to clear the rivets !

[jets]

[QUOTE=T4 hobart VW;1295041

Oh did I mention the couch was totally stuffed [/QUOTE]

When I first read this, I was thinking it must have been a very tiring job that you needed to lay down all the time.
I would say the previous owner/s got their moneys worth out of that clutch.
Please post back on how this all unfolds.

[T4 hobart VW]

Jets - it was a typo - a rather good one at that ! I did give the couch a bit of grief doing research on the T4 2.5l petrol engine before I tackled the job.

Perhaps I should also give you some credit because when I read your footer on your posts it gave me the idea that perhaps before rushing in like a dog after a cat I'd do the research first !

"Understand how it works, troubleshoot logically BEFORE replacing parts."

Its so true and I think it probably save me some money as well !