DIY adjustable camber ball joints mod

[Martin]

Sounds good - keep plugging away at it

Is this Polo still used for daily driving or is it a dedicated fun car?

[sambb]

Commuter and once a month at the hillclimbs.

[Notso Swift]

Wow a pretty active thread today!
I think you and MArtin are both on the right track 100%
5.5 degrees of castor is great, power steering for the win! I am on 7deg for the Telstar, but with my old Suzuki Swift I could only run about 5 because it was just too heavy (combined with a locked diff) Even though it is at high speed and probably less lock. The golf has been set at 5 but I haven't tested it to find out how it will go

I do run A050's and they don't need as much Camber to work as my old A048r's. Martins Toyo's are a direct competitor for the A048, probably better as they don't drop off the same way (but I have only driven on them one at a Winton 300)
If you ever get the chance to cut the A050 in half and compare you will see it is a very different arrangement in the belts, it is constructed closer to a trended slick. The A050 was designed for the JDM Time attack scene (which is a pretty big deal) and Australia is the only other county to get the tyre. The belts from the side wall do not join the ones on the tread face, the movement between the two is what creates the heat and grip vs sliding with a stiffer carcass. It is also why you can start at such low pressures in an A050

[Martin]

That's very interesting (the A050) - thanking you

[sambb]

Last time out at the hillclimbs guys in crx's and civics were running them at 25-26psi. That surprised me but I followed suit after sliding a round a bit on my first run and it worked. But yeah 25psi sounded low to me but they didn't look low - guess that'd be the sidewall strength.

[Martin]

We start the Toyo down around 24~25 psi cold
When hot they come up to 30~31 psi

The Hankook RS3 we started them at 34psi cold

Every tyre is different

You will find a tyre pyro to be a good investment

You could use nitrogen to avoid the cold/hot pressure difference
But it costs money and can be tricky because you want to start high and work your way down
(if you have to add air at the event you've wasted your time/money on the nitrogen)

[Notso Swift]

Last time out at the hillclimbs guys in crx's and civics were running them at 25-26psi. That surprised me but I followed suit after sliding a round a bit on my first run and it worked. But yeah 25psi sounded low to me but they didn't look low - guess that'd be the sidewall strength.

Front, I start at 22 for 30 hot, but mmore weight on the front, longer event on the other side of the equation lower profile
Rear, I have tried everything from 16 (!) to 28. Now on 22, not enough heat when started high but when you are too low the pressure only gets to 24 anyway (and you thing you might roll a tyre when it is that low - although you never do on the back), so 22 doesn't heat up all the way and only gets to 28 or so, but seems reasonable
I can tell you that the first time I got them I started at the smae place I use to start the A048, (can't remember but I think that was 25 or 26 cold) they got up to 34 and there were not gripping anything like they did with 30 hot

When the golf gets running I will be on 15's and there are lots of choices so I will probably try a stager front to back

[sambb]

by stagger do you mean running wider tyres on the front versus the back? I would have already done that by now but I'm pretty sure my ESP will chuck a wobbly. If I'm to keep the same rolling diameters as 205/50/15 fronts my rears would have to be 185/55 which would be getting too narrow I think and I don't think I could fit that on a 6.5 in rim. But yes I'd love to try it on a tight twisty track.

[Martin]

my rears would have to be 185/55 which would be getting too narrow I think and I don't think I could fit that on a 6.5 in rim. But yes I'd love to try it on a tight twisty track.

I'm running 195 on a 6.5" rim - pretty sure 185 will be ok

Otherwise run the rear with a smaller track
The rear will be a bit more lively the
Not big over steer, just more inclined to rotate

[Martin]

Commuter and once a month at the hillclimbs.

You won't want any more than -1.5 deg for daily usage

[sambb]

Alright next update:



So pure joy.... the joints fit snug as a bug. Then more sweet sweet joy because its pretty obvious from the pic that these ball joints have a longer stub and the pivot sits further away from the hub. The distance from the base of the hub to the approx. centre of the joints body/pivot position was 26mm on the OEM and is 35mm on these. My control arms now angle down slightly at the ball joint side which pushes the roll centre up towards the COG. Or to look at it another way, and like Martin said, I can now lower the car further by 10mm and be having zero adverse impact on the roll centre location - steering angles might suffer though. The third pic shows that the pivot assembly is much sturdier and while running close to the disc still has ample clearance.

More to come but gotta go and get the kids from school now! .....walking though..... only had time for one side and I have some serious toe out now that the camber has been put into it.

Oh and all worries I had of strength issues have gone out the door. Theses things are beasts compared to the standard ball joints. They make the OEM's look like little noodly toys, with masses of surface area for the compression fit, a thicker flange and a giant pivot assembly so pretty happy there really.

[Martin]

Looks totally awesome

I can now lower the car further by 10mm and be having zero adverse impact on the roll centre location - steering angles might suffer though.

Lowering could give some bump steer - but that happens when lowering over 25mm

I run my Pulsar 40mm lower than stock and don't have a problem but then again I run around a track that's pretty smooth

[sambb]

yeah even at stock ride height (control arm pivots level) the tie rods angle upward maybe 10mm at the tie rod end so bump steer can only get worse as you lower. I have a feeling my tie rods/track rods are shot though so when I go to renew those i'll try to find a compatible tie rod end that will correct the steering. That's another project though.

[Notso Swift]

Looks good

Yes for stagger i mean wider front and narrow rear, I have nothing like ABS or EBD or ESC or ASC to worry about, all illegal in IP!

[sambb]

So first pic you can see the size difference. Main thing for me was that these joint are a compression sandwhich fit inside the control arm. Each of the ball joints has a raised 'pad' around its bolt holes that act as the surface where the ball joint actually is bolted tight into the control arm. You can see that the Audi ball joint on the left has a really hefty mounting surface compared to OE one. It also uses 10mm bolts so I decided to redrill the control arm to accept 10mm bolts on the outer two most bolts. I left the centre bolt at 8mm though due to that holes proximity to the original hole in the control arm. So yes the joint will sit out further but by the same amount the flange sits deeper into the control arm. Its hard to see in the other pics but thickness of the mounting pads and flange is greater in the audi unit too.
The other two pics show how much bigger the stubs pivot housing is compared to OE. I got a little excited about roll centre correction at this point but it wasn't till I measured them when fitted that it was obvious that the pivot is further down from the hub with the audi ball joint = awesomeness!



First 2 pictures compare the audi joint at its fully in and fully out settings versus the OEM in its fixed position. Its was very hard due to optical illusionisms but it looks like I don't have any more castor but may have lost a tiny bit, but there's no real way of knowing till alignment time.
When I fitted the joint I measured min and maximum camber positions and bolted it up in the middle. The last picture shows the result of this. That's a right angle on the garage floor showing the camber that is present. It definitely has added plenty of camber because its running bucket loads of toe out now.
With it on the ground I was able to see the results of the roll centre correction. My control arms are now lower on the ball joint end and in addition to the the pivot sits below the centre line of the control arm whereas the stocker has the pivot sitting level with the control arm centre line.
I'll get the other side in tonight and then i'll do a backyard toe alignment after I borrow some swivelling disc/pad thingies off a mate. Once its driveable I'll get it down to pedders to properly get the joints set up and all the proper coated high tensile bolts fitted.

while I had the wishbones out it was good to get in and look at the condition of the superpro bushes. They were schmick with no signs of wear or anything so they got a refurb too. It all looks rather new under there now as I gave the wishbones a refurb and paint job too.

ill follow up when the results are in after the alignment.