Tiguans and Rough Roads.

[jcubed]

Images supporting original post yesterday






1st image - the typical bends around which you can't see.
2nd image - the sand plume kicked up by the front wheel is caused by the operation of the HDC. With it switched out - by disabling the Offroad mode - you won't look like you're driving like a muppet.
3rd image - I'm actually stuck here. In deep ruts caused by the preceding vehicles, the lack of run-up and sheer speed required to stay on top of the powder, kills progress, even with the lift kit installed. After three unsuccessful attempts, I went round and did it from the other side.
4th image - same place as the utube Trig.AVI clip.

Thanks for the advice, team_v.

[Sharkie]

Sorry to say, but the Tig is no off-roader by any means. A dirt road, yes, but soft sand and real off-road, no.

Our 5 yr old RAV4 will run rings around the Tig off-road and in sand, I'm afraid. It has no ESC to mess with power, weighs 300kgs less, has a mechanical permanent 50:50 AWD and no turbo lag.

If you are after something to do sand or semi-serious off-road work in a small SUV, buy a Suzuki Vitara or a Subaru Forrester ... with permanent AWD and NO turbo.

EDIT: I recently sold our Mitsubishi 4x4 DC (with lift kit etc) that we used for real off-road work, and can say this with certainty, don't confuse 4Motion AWD and VW marketing spiel with real off-road (and sand) capability.

Enjoy the Tiguans for what they are, really great AWD hatchbacks with efficient and grunty engines that beat any other small SUV on the market on the road .....

[jcubed]

Hi Trueman and Sharkie,

Comment, and a couple of definitions.

Yes, in HINDSIGHT a Forester is better.

Better what? Better SOFTROADER.

What is a softroader? An off-roader without low range. So Vitaras not in contention.

Unfortunately not available in Diesel, has an archaic 4-speed auto transmission (from Nissan, the same they used in the pick-ups distributed here from about 10 years ago), and the boxer engine layout is not compatible with good fuel economy.

The Tiguan has all these, and as a pioneering buyer of a brand new vehicle only having a glossy brochure and the pedigree of a Touareg to go on, you could be misled to believe that the off-road ability is also a given. E.g. that the Tiguan is a mini-Touareg. It is not.

Did I mention that hindsight is an exact science?

The RAV may well be better that the Tiguan, but will be less equal than a Forester, for the simple reason that with specific Forester models you get self-levelling suspension. This is crucial to keep the rear end from bumping through when loaded with 2 weeks camping gear and tyres deflated.

But you do not mention the Freelander 2?

[T&M]

This is for the road and maybe some light offroad dirt tracks (perhaps soem beach work at a push) - no hardcore 4WD stuff at all.


This is for other 4WD stuff


Both have their place.

[Sharkie]

Unfortunately not available in Diesel, has an archaic 4-speed auto transmission (from Nissan, the same they used in the pick-ups distributed here from about 10 years ago), and the boxer engine layout is not compatible with good fuel economy.

In Australia we get the Vitara in a diesel and price wise its a valid comparison to the Tiguan ....

But you do not mention the Freelander 2?

Yes, sorry, forgot the Freelanders are big in ZA, not so much here .... and yes, that is a better small softroad alternative ... if you have the patience you need with its reliability ....

[jcubed]

Hi Sharkie,

From my enquiries regarding reliability of the Freelander on forums, complaints seem to have disappeared since the launch of the LR2. I tested the dealership where I had gone for a test drive with the statement that I am concerned about their reliability track record, and the comment was that it was not so much the reliability, but the lethargic response of the repair work. I.e. the owner would be without a car for 3 weeks. He mentioned examples of satisfied owners that traded their first FL1 in on a newer model without hesitation.

But then I also know of an owner that parked his Freelander 1 outside a Subaru garage and drove off with a Forester, as he now had his 3rd transmission in the Freelander - due to towing a heavy caravan. So its difficult to judge whether this was due to abuse or not. And then urban legend takes over, and the ONE transmission problem becomes a universal problem.

My opinion is that the original Freelander contained too many Rover parts, with the reliability proportional to the inverse of the square of the number thereof. And for some reason, although the TD4 engine was fine in BMWs, the detuned version in the FL1 was not. Perhaps the thrashing required to get it moving took its toll.

The new cars are Fords - or rather, built on the Volvo S60 platform. It has a Volvo/Peugeot engine, Aisin (Toyota) transmission - same unit as the Tiguan - and a Haldex differential. For a manufacturere to stretch a service interval to 24000 km for both petrol and diesel versions, should also instill some confidence.

My 2001 Forester, as capable and reliable as it is - my son is driving it now, 220000km - early in its life, went back twice for transmission rework - bearing replacement to rid it of an unbearable gearbox whine - and replacement of synchros due to it refusing to sometimes go into 1st and 3rd gears. This was all done under warranty and I had the car back within two days. So is a Forester now an unreliable car?

To be sure, I would not touch a Freelander 2 without at least a year's warranty still valid, so any potential problems can be sorted.

[Transporter]

I have no doubts that there are better small soft roaders than Tiguan, but for these who didn’t buy Vitara or Pajero. I think, it is OK to try to improve Tiguans performance in the sand by any means.

Honestly,…. why would someone wanted to climb Mount Everest when he can get there easier in the helicopter?

[trueman]

I have no doubts that there are better small soft roaders than Tiguan, but for these who didn’t buy Vitara or Pajero. I think, it is OK to try to improve Tiguans performance in the sand by any means.

Honestly,…. why would someone wanted to climb Mount Everest when he can get there easier in the helicopter?

I not sure helicopters can fly that high?

[jcubed]

Maybe,

Can't temember how tall Everest is, but a Llama can get to 26,000 ft. This is the Aerospatiale (now Eurocopter) Alouette 2 helicopter with the wire frame tail boom, with an uprated Alouette 3 engine. 1960s design, still built under license in India.

[Transporter]

I googled it for you. How High Can The Average Helicopter Fly? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

[jimbomort]

Sorry to say, but the Tig is no off-roader by any means. A dirt road, yes, but soft sand and real off-road, no.

Our 5 yr old RAV4 will run rings around the Tig off-road and in sand, I'm afraid....

There is more opinion in this thread than actual experience. Sharkie, IMO and experience the remap and the torque and responsiveness it provides works just as well off road as on. You dont really need a low range with the grunt it provides and 1st is low enough for most slower work. The off road tech also works well and I have yet to see the 4wd system let me down. Likewise the big wheels comapro of 08, gave the haldex system a good wrap overall and was up wit hthe others.

Sure, any softroader is goign to have limitations, but sensibly driven there are a lot of places they will get too. I used to get all sorts of places in an old escort that would now be seen as the territory of softroaders and the Tig is far more capable than my old escort. A Landcruiser or Prado it certainly isn't, but I dont want to lug those around for what is 95% of my driving.

If you really want a road weapon dont buy a Tig, and if you really want a offroad beast dont buy a Tig. But there is a lot of territory in b/w and thats the beauty of the Tig, especially as mods get explored in all directions.

Lifting the Tig is has just as much merit as lowering it. Even some advantages perhaps at the lights - no one sees you coming when you dont look the goods.

[jcubed]

Llama



And here is what it looks like.

[jimbomort]

and our Tig on Moreton island, we arrived at high tide

[jcubed]

Softroader Categories

Hi Jimbomort,

Is that a Braille number plate on your car?

Perhaps the definition of a Softroader = Off-roader without low-range, should be split into two further categories based on the terrain, namely Sand and Trail driving, as the two applications actually have different requirements.

E.g., for sand driving, you really do not need low-range, and with sufficient - maybe not even much - lift, the vehicle will perform as good as any pucker 4x4. This is not opinion, but based on my Namibian experience with the Forester.

I've plotted the route on the attached Google Earth image so you can see where it is. If you Google Earth live to the co-ordinates, the Panoramio images will give a very good idea of the terrain. Names to look out for is Luderitz (starting point) and Saddle Hill, Mercury Island, Spencer Bay.



Also, for sand driving where a lot of vehicles are traveling- not so much the desert, but rather fishing trails or sandpits - you need a supple suspension for a more comfortable ride as the car follows the ruts and holes caused by, usually, 4-wheel drive vehicle drivers seeing if they can get up the obstacle in 2-wheel drive, in the process buggering up the trail for those to come.

On the contrary, for trail/obstacle work, a stiff suspension is required, as the going is slow enough to not experience discomfort with a harder ride, but keeping the underside of the car off the rocks.

Both these requirements could be satisfied with variable rate suspension - as with the Tiguan option - but the latter terrain is where you actually require low-range.

As you don't have it, an Auto transmission would be the best bet, as at least the clutch is not burnt. The advantage of the torque converter is sometimes under-estimated, providing on average a torque gain factor of 2.5. The fact that the revs can therefor be raised to get into the engine power band prior to moving off, helps.

Just a pity you cannot combine the accelerator with the brake, i.e. hold the brakes down, get the revs up and then "slip the brake" rather than the clutch for controlled motion, as the Tiguan kills the revs as soon as you apply the brakes.

[jimbomort]

Hi Jimbomort,
...... but the latter terrain is where you actually require low-range.
As you don't have it, an Auto transmission would be the best bet, as at least the clutch is not burnt.

jcubed, thoughtful post and no your posts were clearly based on experience, many others weren't and thats what I was referrign too

re low range, for crawling across rough terrian, definitely an advantage, but I'd be interested to see how a manual TSI with the remap would go, I have been very impressed with its low down torque

burning clutch?, unless riding the clutch a lot not sure I get the problem there. Agree auto's have some advantages for crawl work, noting again with the remap and low 1st gear in the Tigs, I'd have some confidence lack of a low range wouldn't be much of a problem.....up to a point anyway. I haven't tested in any major way though.

Re Tire mounted on back of your Tig door (in your profile pic) - that common on Tig models in SA or an aftermarket mount? Is that still a biscuit tyre or the real deal? Door still lifts up OK?