Tiguans and Rough Roads.

[jimbomort]

Tig off road review

this link may be elsewhere on the forum, but cant say I have ever found it before and have searched for articles lots of times.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/16363/2008-volkswagen-tiguan-tdi-offroad-review/

interestingly, car is same colour as mine!, but a TDI.

they gave it a pretty good workout in the sand, and well......it didn't fair too well.

part of the problem was TDi bogging down at low revs, ESP kicking in and difficulties getting out of ruts.

so for all its worth, for those wanting to use their Tigs on deeper sand, a remapped TSI with the OFF road tech option may be best. On Moreton ours didn't have any of the problems cited in this article ie no problem at all getting out of ruts, no issues with the engine bogging down and no issues with the ESP slowing us down. In fact I finished the trip with a high degree of confidence in the Tigs ability on sand. Presumably the offroad option on our car, the faster throttle response of the TSI, and impressive torque with the APR remap even at low revs account for the difference.

[Transporter]

A lot of things will affect Tig's (any softroader's) ability to drive in sand. Lot of us know its limitations or at least are aware of some of them. I don't think that TSI or TDI will make much of the difference in the sand. For that to find out, one would have to drive the same car in the same conditions (same sand) at the same time and both models would have to be fitted with the same tyres (size is very important too) inflated to the same pressure.

Some helpful tips for driving in sand.

http://www.pps.net.au/4wdencounter/4wdtech/4wdtech.html

[Arctra]

they gave it a pretty good workout in the sand, and well......it didn't fair too well.

part of the problem was TDi bogging down at low revs, ESP kicking in and difficulties getting out of ruts.

Yeah, I read the article before getting my Tig and it is one of the reasons I have been concerned about taking the Tig on sand. But from my research, it seems the problem was not so much with the Tig and more with the driver. Bogging in sand = tyre pressures too high. I suspect the "getting out of ruts" problem is a similar combo of tyre pressure and technique. As for ESP kicking in, as jcubed will attest I'm sure, when on sand - turn ESP OFF. The article also doesn't mention whether the Tig they tested had offroad tech, which would make a big difference.

Once I have had a chance to go on sand I will comment on the TDI's capability - and will then hopefully be able to comprehensively rubish the article

[Pullstarter]

I'm not sure if the 4wd park at Kurnell is still there or not but it's basically dunes and beach, would be a good test spot as there's always plenty of others there to pull you out

[jimbomort]

Yeah, I read the article before getting my Tig and it is one of the reasons I have been concerned about taking the Tig on sand. .....Bogging in sand = tyre pressures too high. I suspect the "getting out of ruts" problem is a similar combo of tyre pressure and technique..... The article also doesn't mention whether the Tig they tested had offroad tech, which would make a big difference.
Once I have had a chance to go on sand I will comment on the TDI's capability - and will then hopefully be able to comprehensively rubish the article

yeh hopefully so, I certainly walked away with a high degree of confidence and agree it depends a bit on the driver too, sometimes articles can get the results they want or fail to see theire own failings in getting the result. Correct too there is no mention of whether has the off road option or not

I dont think tyre pressure was an issue though, according to the article, their tyre pressures were same or even lower than I used on Moreton

my comments were based on my experience with one type of Tig and that reported in the article with another. I dont remember any comment in the big wheels SUV write up of 08 re sand failings and will be glad to hear if this article is wrong.

post there for anyone who hasn't already purchased and wants to use a Tig on sand, but perhaps my post was premature. It would be great to here others experiences or to have a Tig event on out Moreton sometime! Its a sensational spot.

[147Tig]

I'm not sure if the 4wd park at Kurnell is still there or not but it's basically dunes and beach, would be a good test spot as there's always plenty of others there to pull you out

Don't go there becuase the sand are not soft, they really pack down. I think you even can drive a 2wd there

[Pullstarter]

There was hard packed when I used to go there too, in a Gemini! But the beach itself and the dunes behind are super soft sand, 4wd territiory only. I know this coz the Gem got bogged in it hehe.

[147Tig]

There was hard packed when I used to go there too, in a Gemini! But the beach itself and the dunes behind are super soft sand, 4wd territiory only. I know this coz the Gem got bogged in it hehe.

Lol, keep us informed

[jcubed]

Hi all,

Once again, an extract from an article which may tie up some loose ends and random comments made across forums. As soon as I puzzle out how, I'll post the images that was contained within the article, but stripped off during the cut and paste operation.

Comment on the Car

After 47000 km, I can safely say that of the 12 cars my family has owned to date, this ranks among the best. It is solidly put together (like my Jetta 2, way back when), the interior layout and finish is excellent with nice touches and innovations, handling faultless, fuel economy good – although the onboard computer is at least 10% optimistic - and the 2.0 TDi/six-speed Tiptronic gearbox match, a gem. There is never want for torque, the car is fun to drive and when initially launched, also was good value.

Personal dislikes aside - in addition to the insufficient ground clearance - there are however a number of shortcomings which detrimentally affect the car’s off-road ability.

• The stiff suspension. When the air is whooshed out of your lungs due to the car accurately following the left-right holes left by previous vehicles up a sandy incline, you involuntarily slow down and get stuck. It’s not that the car can’t take it, you can’t. The adaptive suspension option offered within a few months after launch, suggests that this is not an isolated opinion.

• The factory-fitted swing-out towbar. With this option, you loose the rear recovery point. If you end up in a similar situation as the X-Trail getting stuck around Kubu Island (LW Dec 2009), other than the Nissan, this car might still be there - I could post this harrowing X-Trail tale if there is an interest - probably 10 pages, spread across two issues.

• Traction control. In practical off-road use this proved to be non-optimal due to the HDC not being independently de-selectable. This can only be achieved by disabling the off-road mode itself, in order to prevent the brakes from continuously kicking in on sandy down-slopes. With it off, civilized brake modulation is easy. But hey, if you could train your co-driver to “ride” the Off-road Mode switch, activating/deactivating it as the car runs up and downhill – you surely don’t have time for this, with driving occupying your full attention – it works just fine.

• ESP. You are instructed to keep this enabled during sand driving. This severely impairs the car’s braking ability. You’ll learn soon enough to switch it OFF.

A review of the car by the UK Autotrader magazine quotes VW as stating that they envisage 5% of buyers going for the Track and Field version, which by front end design caters for the off-road oriented user. By implication this means that 95% of buyers will not go off-road. Obviously, the design of the car will therefore have an on-road bias in the above ratio. This is borne out by the fact that it rides on the same performance/handling orientated rear suspension layout used in the Golf 5/6/SEAT, Touran and Audi A3, with the addition of 4WD and larger wheels.

Nonetheless – and this is probably a bigger disappointment than the misleading ground-clearance specification – the manufacturer came very close to building a superbly capable softroader. It has everything else going for it at high standards, but, probably based on the market assessment above, orientated towards road use - obviously not advertised as such. This decision could also have been driven by the desire not to create competition with the Touareg and upcoming Amarok.

Being in the military R&D industry and realizing that there is always the $bottom line$, this is in some way understandable, but I am guessing that the VW Engineering Development Department is equally disappointed that they could not have had their way, and build a “Mini-Touareg”.

However, on-road speaking, the car tows well and stable, the diesel engine ideally suited to this. If your idea of a holiday is towing a trailer to some civilized destination, this could be the car for you.

Venturing off the beaten track, Mike’s Pass near Cathedral Peak was easily traversed.

Attempt anything rougher with care, as the rear suspension geometry is unsuitable for this type of treatment, which effectively limits even the “chinless wonder” to C-class farm roads or well-maintained trails. On good gravel roads, the car’s handling is impeccable, albeit very bumpy.

Based on my own experience and the findings of an off-road review of this car viewable at http://www.caradvice.com.au/16363/20...ffroad-review/, in standard form it would be unsuccessful in deep sand due to - almost exclusively - insufficient ground clearance under the sump, especially after deflating the tyres to 0.8 bar.

I suspect this is why the manufacturer instructs in the owner’s manual that you do not deflate the tyres when driving on sand, effectively disqualifying you from this terrain, per se.

[T&M]

Hi all,

Once again, an extract from an article which may tie up some loose ends and random comments made across forums. As soon as I puzzle out how, I'll post the images that was contained within the article, but stripped off during the cut and paste operation.

Comment on the Car

After 47000 km, I can safely say that of the 12 cars my family has owned to date, this ranks among the best. It is solidly put together (like my Jetta 2, way back when), the interior layout and finish is excellent with nice touches and innovations, handling faultless, fuel economy good – although the onboard computer is at least 10% optimistic - and the 2.0 TDi/six-speed Tiptronic gearbox match, a gem. There is never want for torque, the car is fun to drive and when initially launched, also was good value.

Personal dislikes aside - in addition to the insufficient ground clearance - there are however a number of shortcomings which detrimentally affect the car’s off-road ability.

• The stiff suspension. When the air is whooshed out of your lungs due to the car accurately following the left-right holes left by previous vehicles up a sandy incline, you involuntarily slow down and get stuck. It’s not that the car can’t take it, you can’t. The adaptive suspension option offered within a few months after launch, suggests that this is not an isolated opinion.

• The factory-fitted swing-out towbar. With this option, you loose the rear recovery point. If you end up in a similar situation as the X-Trail getting stuck around Kubu Island (LW Dec 2009), other than the Nissan, this car might still be there - I could post this harrowing X-Trail tale if there is an interest - probably 10 pages, spread across two issues.

• Traction control. In practical off-road use this proved to be non-optimal due to the HDC not being independently de-selectable. This can only be achieved by disabling the off-road mode itself, in order to prevent the brakes from continuously kicking in on sandy down-slopes. With it off, civilized brake modulation is easy. But hey, if you could train your co-driver to “ride” the Off-road Mode switch, activating/deactivating it as the car runs up and downhill – you surely don’t have time for this, with driving occupying your full attention – it works just fine.

• ESP. You are instructed to keep this enabled during sand driving. This severely impairs the car’s braking ability. You’ll learn soon enough to switch it OFF.

A review of the car by the UK Autotrader magazine quotes VW as stating that they envisage 5% of buyers going for the Track and Field version, which by front end design caters for the off-road oriented user. By implication this means that 95% of buyers will not go off-road. Obviously, the design of the car will therefore have an on-road bias in the above ratio. This is borne out by the fact that it rides on the same performance/handling orientated rear suspension layout used in the Golf 5/6/SEAT, Touran and Audi A3, with the addition of 4WD and larger wheels.

Nonetheless – and this is probably a bigger disappointment than the misleading ground-clearance specification – the manufacturer came very close to building a superbly capable softroader. It has everything else going for it at high standards, but, probably based on the market assessment above, orientated towards road use - obviously not advertised as such. This decision could also have been driven by the desire not to create competition with the Touareg and upcoming Amarok.

Being in the military R&D industry and realizing that there is always the $bottom line$, this is in some way understandable, but I am guessing that the VW Engineering Development Department is equally disappointed that they could not have had their way, and build a “Mini-Touareg”.

However, on-road speaking, the car tows well and stable, the diesel engine ideally suited to this. If your idea of a holiday is towing a trailer to some civilized destination, this could be the car for you.

Venturing off the beaten track, Mike’s Pass near Cathedral Peak was easily traversed.

Attempt anything rougher with care, as the rear suspension geometry is unsuitable for this type of treatment, which effectively limits even the “chinless wonder” to C-class farm roads or well-maintained trails. On good gravel roads, the car’s handling is impeccable, albeit very bumpy.

Based on my own experience and the findings of an off-road review of this car viewable at http://www.caradvice.com.au/16363/20...ffroad-review/, in standard form it would be unsuccessful in deep sand due to - almost exclusively - insufficient ground clearance under the sump, especially after deflating the tyres to 0.8 bar.

I suspect this is why the manufacturer instructs in the owner’s manual that you do not deflate the tyres when driving on sand, effectively disqualifying you from this terrain, per se.

You better sell the Tiggy mate and get yourself a Land Rover!

[jcubed]

Hi T&M,

You are exactly right. And I check the classifieds EVERY DAY. Twice.

Now if I wanted a diesel, I could find 5 models for sale any day, but in the almost a year I have been looking, only one i6 2008 model came up for sale, and by the time I saw the advert, it was gone. It's then that I updated the weekly ritual to a daily one.

But I hear hope springs eternal ...

[jimbomort]

Based on my own experience and the findings of an off-road review of this car viewable at http://www.caradvice.com.au/16363/20...ffroad-review/, in standard form it would be unsuccessful in deep sand due to - almost exclusively - insufficient ground clearance under the sump, especially after deflating the tyres to 0.8 bar.

I suspect this is why the manufacturer instructs in the owner’s manual that you do not deflate the tyres when driving on sand, effectively disqualifying you from this terrain, per se.

j, good stuff, though I disagree on the sand based on my experience - see post #18 on this thread. We ran our tyres at 18psi.

I found our Tig (off road, manual, remapped TSI) very capable on the sand, including when it was loaded to the hilt. Sure some extra clearance would have been nice, but that aside, not a problem. Only caveat was it had been raining a fair bit, so sand not as loose as after a long dry spell, but then that also meant the rutts were more defined, the main reason clearance was a bit of an issue. I actually found it easier (and so did the car) driving on 'virgin sand' high on the beach, than in the rutts.

[jcubed]

Hi jimbomort,

I think your quote below is key to what you experienced. Don't get me wrong - I badly want the Tiguan to do as well as we were led to believe by the local pre-launch press, e.g. "tested under the harsh conditions of the Namib". However, the mere fact that none of the reports actually list the results of this "suggested" sand driving, indicates that it was not tested there, or the results were poor.

What triggered my contribution was another poster's reference to the Caradvice offroad test. I knew you guys were familiar with it, so it would be easy to explain what I meant. OK, I do think that the tester was driving like a bit of a berk, as the images showing the Tiguan being recovered from FLAT sand, is inexcusable. Yes, the sump would have dragged, but not enough to bog the vehicle down. The dune does look formidable, although I can see patches of damp, so outright speed may have done it, but as the reviewer explains, to avoid the heavy contact of the airdam when the front suspendion goes into full compression as you enter the dune, this was not possible. This compression is not something to underestimate, as the resultant thud can be pretty solid. Goodbye plastic sump cover - Arctra, stop wasting time, and go test that bash plate of yours, mate .

Where the difference lies, is as you rightly mentioned in post #18: I should say however that it rained a lot while we were there and so sand was more compacted.

The video links I posted under the "Great utube link" may explain what I mean when the sand is NOT damp. What compounds the problem, is when the route starts twisting and you cannot see around bends when the track runs in a channel. In a convoy, the natural reaction is to slow down, as you have no idea where the vehicle ahead of you is, often leading to reversing out and trying again.

It was also explained to me by the tour leader when I did the 5-day Namib trip in my Forester in 2006 - 500km of sand, mostly dunes - that the reason I was able to traverse it so easily was exactly due to the good rainy season a few months prior to the trip. So on sand, the results may well be seasonal.

Ok, so if someone can please explain how to post images on this forum from a folder instead of a URL, or alternatively how to get images from a folder onto a URL, and whether there is a dedicated one for this forum, I would greatly appreciate it, and update the text with some illustrative images in an edit.

[team_v]

Best way is to use an imagehosting website.


I use ImageHost.org - Free Image & File Hosting but you can use others like ImageBanana or ImageShack® - Online Media Hosting

[trueman]

this link may be elsewhere on the forum, but cant say I have ever found it before and have searched for articles lots of times.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/16363/2008-volkswagen-tiguan-tdi-offroad-review/

interestingly, car is same colour as mine!, but a TDI.

they gave it a pretty good workout in the sand, and well......it didn't fair too well.

part of the problem was TDi bogging down at low revs, ESP kicking in and difficulties getting out of ruts.

so for all its worth, for those wanting to use their Tigs on deeper sand, a remapped TSI with the OFF road tech option may be best. On Moreton ours didn't have any of the problems cited in this article ie no problem at all getting out of ruts, no issues with the engine bogging down and no issues with the ESP slowing us down. In fact I finished the trip with a high degree of confidence in the Tigs ability on sand. Presumably the offroad option on our car, the faster throttle response of the TSI, and impressive torque with the APR remap even at low revs account for the difference.

MMMMM I think I'd just get a subaru still a softroader but more capable IMO