Mk2 Tiguan Tuning

[tigger73]

What is the easiest path to keep the stock turbo and maximize performance with bolt-on mods only? What gains can you get with this approach as well?

I want to be able to revert to stock fairly easily including the exhaust and fake outlets.

It depends on what your motivation is - whether to return to stock for warranty or for sale.

The easiest thing to return to stock is a stage 1 tune (no hardware) as this is simply an ECU reflash.

As soon as you start installing hardware it becomes more difficult (and costly) to return to stock.

Intake is relatively simple - as install can be done from the top of the engine bay in 30 minutes.

When you start talking exhausts then the cost of removing and going back to stock is starting to be closer to the price you may get from selling the second-hand parts. Factor in getting between 30-50% of the original purchase price second-hand and you'll quickly see that the effort you go through to put the car back to stock isn't worth it (unless you think you'll have a larger market for selling a stock car).

Intercoolers can be 5-6 hours labour to fit so these are also heading into the "too hard basket". Much less hassle to leave an upgraded intercooler on the car. It's something that won't necessarily effect the running of the car.

[Psych101]

It depends on what your motivation is - whether to return to stock for warranty or for sale.

The easiest thing to return to stock is a stage 1 tune (no hardware) as this is simply an ECU reflash.

As soon as you start installing hardware it becomes more difficult (and costly) to return to stock.

Intake is relatively simple - as install can be done from the top of the engine bay in 30 minutes.

When you start talking exhausts then the cost of removing and going back to stock is starting to be closer to the price you may get from selling the second-hand parts. Factor in getting between 30-50% of the original purchase price second-hand and you'll quickly see that the effort you go through to put the car back to stock isn't worth it (unless you think you'll have a larger market for selling a stock car).

Intercoolers can be 5-6 hours labour to fit so these are also heading into the "too hard basket". Much less hassle to leave an upgraded intercooler on the car. It's something that won't necessarily effect the running of the car.

Physical mods I would do would just be bolt on stuff if there is a benefit. Stuff like dp and intake and maybe exhaust for the noise. Keen to know what are the bang for buck and simple mods worth doing with the stock turbo.

It was hard selling my modified wrx because it had extensive mods with a custom tune and it would have been cost prohibitive to return to stock. I did eventually find a buyer who appreciated the package but it took a long time. I don't want to go down this path again when it comes time for a new car even though I don't plan to sell anytime soon. Probably not within warranty period anyway.

[tigger73]

Physical mods I would do would just be bolt on stuff if there is a benefit. Stuff like dp and intake and maybe exhaust for the noise. Keen to know what are the bang for buck and simple mods worth doing with the stock turbo.

It was hard selling my modified wrx because it had extensive mods with a custom tune and it would have been cost prohibitive to return to stock. I did eventually find a buyer who appreciated the package but it took a long time. I don't want to go down this path again when it comes time for a new car even though I don't plan to sell anytime soon. Probably not within warranty period anyway.

OK for Gen 2 Tiguan this is my proposed upgrade path:

Step 1: Stage 1

Step 2: IS38 upgrade

Step 3: Stage 2 IS38 (DP and intake)

For me stage 2 tune on the stock turbo is a bit of a waste of time. For the $ you spend on putting on a DP you're much better off spending a few more $ and bolting on an IS38 turbo. It's similar gains again to a stage 1 tune and in terms of bang for buck is essentially taking you into stage 1 Mk7 R territory.

[Psych101]

OK for Gen 2 Tiguan this is my proposed upgrade path:

Step 1: Stage 1

Step 2: IS38 upgrade

Step 3: Stage 2 IS38 (DP and intake)

For me stage 2 tune on the stock turbo is a bit of a waste of time. For the $ you spend on putting on a DP you're much better off spending a few more $ and bolting on an IS38 turbo. It's similar gains again to a stage 1 tune and in terms of bang for buck is essentially taking you into stage 1 Mk7 R territory.

I like the response from the is20 for driveability so prob won't change this. If I can get 200kw+ atw I would be happy enough I think. Is that achievable without a turbo swap? I assume DP and intake mods needed?

Anything else easy and worthwhile?

[tigger73]

I like the response from the is20 for driveability so prob won't change this. If I can get 200kw+ atw I would be happy enough I think. Is that achievable without a turbo swap? I assume DP and intake mods needed?

Anything else easy and worthwhile?

Yes understand wanting to keep the response of a smaller turbo for a daily driver. I am yet to see anyone get near to 200kwaw with the stock turbo. You would need to have every supporting mod done to get anywhere close to that including a good DSG tune, all turbo inlet piping and intercooler piping upgraded, upgraded intercooler, turbo muffler delete, 3" DP, intake and run it on a cool morning with race gas and a 104RON map.

Or just drop in an IS38 and a tune.

[Psych101]

Yes understand wanting to keep the response of a smaller turbo for a daily driver. I am yet to see anyone get near to 200kwaw with the stock turbo. You would need to have every supporting mod done to get anywhere close to that including a good DSG tune, all turbo inlet piping and intercooler piping upgraded, upgraded intercooler, turbo muffler delete, 3" DP, intake and run it on a cool morning with race gas and a 104RON map.

Or just drop in an IS38 and a tune.

Is apr stage 2 just a dp and tune. They claim 250kw from that. Surely that would translate to at least 200kw at the wheels even if their figures are inflated?

[tigger73]

Is apr stage 2 just a dp and tune. They claim 250kw from that. Surely that would translate to at least 200kw at the wheels even if their figures are inflated?

All the stage 2 cars that I've seen (in this thread) that have been on the dyno have got between 180-185kwaw stage 2. To be honest you'll find that the DQ500 in the Tig and AWD drivetrain take a lot more out of the car. You're realistically looking at 25-30% driveline losses.

There was a IS38 +DP get 194kwaw and that's the highest number I've seen here to date. There's possibly some cars with higher outputs as one IS38 car is running 4.1sec 0-100's and that needs a fair bit to achieve that sort of number.

I've always been disappointed with the dyno numbers on my previous Tiguans particularly compared to FWD cars. However put them on the road and the extra traction of AWD and the FWD cars will struggle to keep up especially in damp conditions.

[INASNT]

All the stage 2 cars that I've seen (in this thread) that have been on the dyno have got between 180-185kwaw stage 2. To be honest you'll find that the DQ500 in the Tig and AWD drivetrain take a lot more out of the car. You're realistically looking at 25-30% driveline losses.

There was a IS38 +DP get 194kwaw and that's the highest number I've seen here to date. There's possibly some cars with higher outputs as one IS38 car is running 4.1sec 0-100's and that needs a fair bit to achieve that sort of number.

I've always been disappointed with the dyno numbers on my previous Tiguans particularly compared to FWD cars. However put them on the road and the extra traction of AWD and the FWD cars will struggle to keep up especially in damp conditions.

Based on MK7 R Stage 2's an IS38 Tig should see close to 230-240kw@4 wheels.

[Hole46]

Based on MK7 R Stage 2's an IS38 Tig should see close to 230-240kw@4 wheels.

Don’t forget that mk7r’s have lower compression pistons/ bigger combustion chambers to make more power.


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[tigger73]

Based on MK7 R Stage 2's an IS38 Tig should see close to 230-240kw@4 wheels.

I'm only reporting on what other forum members have posted after running their cars on a dyno. Unfortunately no local APR tuned cars have run on a dyno to verify any of the claimed figures and only the one IS38 car with DP which was done by Tarmac.

I don't think that an IS38 Tig will match a Golf R output purely from the fact that the DQ500 DSG will pull the figure down. From my experience I'd expect a "fully built" IS38 Tiguan (DP, intake, intercooler, turbo muffler delete, turbo intake elbow, DSG tune) to be putting out 210-215kwaw compared to ~230-240kwaw for a Golf R. Basic stage 2 Golf R's (DP, intake) with a newer revision turbo are generally running around the 220kwaw so I'd expect a Tiguan to be down 15-20kwaw on that so ~200kwaw.

I'm basing these numbers off the dyno days we run over this way. Some interesting reading in this list:

• Dyno Day - Spring 2018
• 2018 Dyno Day
• 2017 Dyno Day - Sat 6 May
• 2016 dyno day
• Dyno Day III - 8am Saturday 9th May
• Dyno Day II - 8am Saturday 24th May
• Dyno day (morning) - 8am saturday 21 september

[tigger73]

Don’t forget that mk7r’s have lower compression pistons/ bigger combustion chambers to make more power.

Yes pistons are different in the R for lower compression ratio, however bore/stroke is the same (1984cc). There is a bunch of other differences for the higher output EA888 in the Golf R:

• A different alloy for the cylinder head due to higher thermal stress;
• The exhaust valves were nitrided and had a higher Ni content;
• The exhaust valve seat rings were upgraded for improved temperature stability and wear resistance;
• Revised exhaust camshaft timing;
• A larger IHI turbocharger which provided peak boost pressure of 1.2 bar (17.4 psi);
• Unique pistons for a 9.3:1 compression ratio (compared to 9.6:1);
• For the piston cooling jets, a higher flow rate;
• For the high pressure injectors, a higher flow rate; and,
• A high performance main radiator with one or two auxiliary radiators (depending on market).

So just sticking a IS38 on a GTI/Tiguan won't necessarily make it into an R. It'll come closer but will still be limited by a number of the other small differences in the 2 engines.

[INASNT]

I'm only reporting on what other forum members have posted after running their cars on a dyno. Unfortunately no local APR tuned cars have run on a dyno to verify any of the claimed figures and only the one IS38 car with DP which was done by Tarmac.

I don't think that an IS38 Tig will match a Golf R output purely from the fact that the DQ500 DSG will pull the figure down. From my experience I'd expect a "fully built" IS38 Tiguan (DP, intake, intercooler, turbo muffler delete, turbo intake elbow, DSG tune) to be putting out 210-215kwaw compared to ~230-240kwaw for a Golf R. Basic stage 2 Golf R's (DP, intake) with a newer revision turbo are generally running around the 220kwaw so I'd expect a Tiguan to be down 15-20kwaw on that so ~200kwaw.

I'm basing these numbers off the dyno days we run over this way. Some interesting reading in this list:

• Dyno Day - Spring 2018
• 2018 Dyno Day
• 2017 Dyno Day - Sat 6 May
• 2016 dyno day
• Dyno Day III - 8am Saturday 9th May
• Dyno Day II - 8am Saturday 24th May
• Dyno day (morning) - 8am saturday 21 september

Melboure_Tig could run hes APR IS38 on the same dyno as I ran my stage 2 for a direct comparison

[Psych101]

Will an APR dealer give you a stage 2 tune running a third party dp? Can't imagine this would make much difference to warrant a custom tune

[tigger73]

Will an APR dealer give you a stage 2 tune running a third party dp? Can't imagine this would make much difference to warrant a custom tune

Yes they'll do it but it'll be the same file regardless. It's more of an issue when it comes to air intakes as these can be a bit more varied. Because they're just flashing a generic file if your intake flows more or less than the one that they used for generating the file then there can be some issues. The good thing is that the APR intake flows pretty much the same as the stock airbox with the snow-grate mod. So this is a low cost route that will give you decent compatibility.

[Janus77]

I'm coming up on 15,000km's and am planning on a stage 1 tune following completion of the first service.
Have been told APR retail is $1299, i've heard of 10% off promotions. Are the tuners negotiable on price, there are no promotions on at the moment.
I think i've settled on using APR as i'll only go with a stage 1 and do not plan to make any physical modifications to the vehicle.
If at some stage i want to go back to stock is this something i can get done easily or am i up for another $1300 clams?