Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[REXman]

Anyway all I was saying, was:
1. Got a bluefin tune stage 1 on the Tig.
2. I am super impressed with its gains, and might be the most pronouned single car mod I have done, which is nuts as this is an SUV. Driving the car the KW and Nm gains don't seem far fetched..

PS Tiggy73 car is making me want to get a bigger turbo.

[tigger73]

Anyway all I was saying, was:
1. Got a bluefin tune stage 1 on the Tig.
2. I am super impressed with its gains, and might be the most pronouned single car mod I have done, which is nuts as this is an SUV. Driving the car the KW and Nm gains don't seem far fetched..

PS Tiggy73 car is making me want to get a bigger turbo.

Stage 1 is where it's at in terms of bang for buck and Bluefin/Superchips are certainly up there for $/kw.

I think once you get used to the stage 1 you'll be wanting a bit more. However you'll need to budget about $5k for an IS38 swap, DP, retune and install.

[REXman]

If I get a DP and Air filter.. will that work fine with a turbo upgrade latter? Any issues with your car Tiggy73 or is it all running pretty good this far?

[Entheos]

Hi All, newbie here - first post on this forum. I purchased a 2018 Tiguan Sportline a few months back and chose it because it had the 20" rims, DAP (except for full digital dash) and all the driver focused stuff but missed out on leather seats (which my kids will abuse) and the body kit so its more of a sleeper. Previous car was a moderately modded MY06 Subaru Forester XT and prior to that a highly modded WRX wagon (360kw ATW, 10.9 @ Eastern Creek), so I wanted a replacement that had some potential but promised myself that I would be good and not modify the car too quickly.

My promise lasted a month - loved the potential of the car but it lacked soul and spark and I was missing the Forester's rawness and responsiveness. Went to Vince @ North Shore HiTech here in Sydney and got the APR Stage 1 (and I put replaced the stock air filter with the Racingline one) and wow - what a different car. Should have come like that from the factory. However, as much as I like the APR stage 1 tune, it runs out of puff fast and is not quite what I hoped for. So yes, more mods to come and what better thread to ask a few questions in?

So, first - what do I want. I don't want a dyno queen (bought the wrong car for that) and it is a daily driver and family car. I want it to be responsive and won't accept lots of lag - been there, done that. Laggy cars are not fast street cars (although their quarter mile times might be good). I don't want it loud with lots of pops, bangs NVH and induction noise - it is a family car. Lastly, I want the car to hold its own against the up and coming boy racers in their Golf Rs, BMW 140is, AMG A45s, etc. It doesn't have to beat them in a GP, but it does need to be able to be respected. I guess, to summarise that, I want responsive 4-4.5sec 0-100 car that retains much of its factory refinement.

So, how to get there. Here is the plan and before I commit to spend, I'd love some feedback from the knowledgable VW owners on this site who know more about the options than me. So, planned mods are:

- Racingline R600 intake system package (R600 cold air intake, R600 intake silicone hose, turbo muffler delete, high flow turbo inlet)
- IS38 turbo (722H)
- APR DP Exhaust (AWD)
- APR Stage 3 IS38 High Torque upgrade
- TCU tune

So, questions. First turbo. I don't want to go anything laggier than a IS38 where, according to most graphs of the EA888 Gen 3, the IS38 is producing more power and torque than the IS20 from just before 3000rpm. Have looked at the Hybrid IS38s and whilst they all produce more power than the stock IS38, they seem to be less responsive too. Really like the results that Melbourne_Tiggy is getting from the IS38 however am really interested in the TTE475 that tigger73 just installed, however that is one expensive turbo. The Littco L430 and L450 seem laggier than the IS38, as do the Snails. Any other options out there? TTE 485 (kind find much data on that one)? I've read earlier in the thread the discussion between stock IS38 and hybrids. Happy to pay more for a hybrid if it can give really good responsiveness - I'm not after high numbers - I suspect the 400 or so hp of the IS38 will be fine for me.

TCU tune - does APR do a tune for the DQ500? If not, what are the options? The TCU really isn't coping well with the Stage 1 ECU tune and I've had three episodes so far where the car has downshifted to 1st when flooring the car at 3500rpm in second. When it does this, the TCU realises it can't engage 1st as the car has already accelerated too fast and it would be beyond the rev limiter, so the transmission has remained in neutral with the engine bouncing off the limiter until I take my foot of the accelerator. Not a fun experience.

Anything to consider? Racingline seems to be fairly solid for intake gear and the R600 is not too noisy from all accounts. Coil, fuel pump, spark plugs?

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Hi All, newbie here - first post on this forum. I purchased a 2018 Tiguan Sportline a few months back and chose it because it had the 20" rims, DAP (except for full digital dash) and all the driver focused stuff but missed out on leather seats (which my kids will abuse) and the body kit so its more of a sleeper. Previous car was a moderately modded MY06 Subaru Forester XT and prior to that a highly modded WRX wagon (360kw ATW, 10.9 @ Eastern Creek), so I wanted a replacement that had some potential but promised myself that I would be good and not modify the car too quickly.

My promise lasted a month - loved the potential of the car but it lacked soul and spark and I was missing the Forester's rawness and responsiveness. Went to Vince @ North Shore HiTech here in Sydney and got the APR Stage 1 (and I put replaced the stock air filter with the Racingline one) and wow - what a different car. Should have come like that from the factory. However, as much as I like the APR stage 1 tune, it runs out of puff fast and is not quite what I hoped for. So yes, more mods to come and what better thread to ask a few questions in?

So, first - what do I want. I don't want a dyno queen (bought the wrong car for that) and it is a daily driver and family car. I want it to be responsive and won't accept lots of lag - been there, done that. Laggy cars are not fast street cars (although their quarter mile times might be good). I don't want it loud with lots of pops, bangs NVH and induction noise - it is a family car. Lastly, I want the car to hold its own against the up and coming boy racers in their Golf Rs, BMW 140is, AMG A45s, etc. It doesn't have to beat them in a GP, but it does need to be able to be respected. I guess, to summarise that, I want responsive 4-4.5sec 0-100 car that retains much of its factory refinement.

So, how to get there. Here is the plan and before I commit to spend, I'd love some feedback from the knowledgable VW owners on this site who know more about the options than me. So, planned mods are:

- Racingline R600 intake system package (R600 cold air intake, R600 intake silicone hose, turbo muffler delete, high flow turbo inlet)
- IS38 turbo (722H)
- APR DP Exhaust (AWD)
- APR Stage 3 IS38 High Torque upgrade
- TCU tune

So, questions. First turbo. I don't want to go anything laggier than a IS38 where, according to most graphs of the EA888 Gen 3, the IS38 is producing more power and torque than the IS20 from just before 3000rpm. Have looked at the Hybrid IS38s and whilst they all produce more power than the stock IS38, they seem to be less responsive too. Really like the results that Melbourne_Tiggy is getting from the IS38 however am really interested in the TTE475 that tigger73 just installed, however that is one expensive turbo. The Littco L430 and L450 seem laggier than the IS38, as do the Snails. Any other options out there? TTE 485 (kind find much data on that one)? I've read earlier in the thread the discussion between stock IS38 and hybrids. Happy to pay more for a hybrid if it can give really good responsiveness - I'm not after high numbers - I suspect the 400 or so hp of the IS38 will be fine for me.

TCU tune - does APR do a tune for the DQ500? If not, what are the options? The TCU really isn't coping well with the Stage 1 ECU tune and I've had three episodes so far where the car has downshifted to 1st when flooring the car at 3500rpm in second. When it does this, the TCU realises it can't engage 1st as the car has already accelerated too fast and it would be beyond the rev limiter, so the transmission has remained in neutral with the engine bouncing off the limiter until I take my foot of the accelerator. Not a fun experience.

Anything to consider? Racingline seems to be fairly solid for intake gear and the R600 is not too noisy from all accounts. Coil, fuel pump, spark plugs?

IS38 is definitely the bang for bucks mod, at the engine APR claim 396 HP on their v2 Beta file I am running. I haven’t had a chance to vbox and compare the difference to v1.1.

APR will be releasing a DQ500 MQB TCU tune shortly, hopefully this isn’t just for the TTRS and RS3 and will be available for ROW Tigs also.

TCU tunes for DQ500 MQB are available from TVS engineering, E-Tuners Motorsport, and Underground Performance to name a few.

Tigger73 didn’t change his sparks or coils, and so far so good. If you go with APR they do recommend that you change to colder NGK racing 7437-9 spark plugs.

I’ve had the IS38 for 12 months, and no issues apart from some exhaust CELs early on. Figured out my O2 sensor had carked it.
It has been a phenomenal daily, very quiet and sleeper like when out of the boost zone, but when you put it into M/S and plant your foot it transforms with peak torque arriving at around 3k RPM to 5k RPM.

Hybrids IS38 are very good and have more power and toque, however you do sacrifice a bit on the lower RPM band. On a roll it would be a monster....

All the best with your build, drop me a message if you have any questions.

[tigger73]

From all accounts the practical limit for these engines to run reliably with rebuilding is 500hp. If you go more than that then the tuners will recommend building the engine and costs start going up rapidly.

So the choices are stick with APR and go IS38 as they have an off the shelf file for this setup (essentially a Mk7 Golf R file). Or get a hybrid turbo and change tuners as APR only supports stock turbos or their own hybrid 530hp unit which requires a built engine.

In your case it’ll be a lot cheaper to stay with APR and go IS38 which is not a bad option all things considered. There’s trade-offs both ways but I think IS38 is the sweet spot between responsiveness and top end power.

As a general rule APR hits boost hard and tends to fall away more at the top end. Other tuners don’t go so aggressive at lower rpm and pull stronger to Redline. If you look at the dyno curves there’s a “torque bump” as the turbo comes on boost and then falls away whereas other tuners are more of a flat torque curve with a smoother transition.




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[davman]

With the IS38 Turbo are you planning on sourcing a second hand one, or are you going to look for a new one? Or are you going to get your APR shop to search for one for you?

It is just that there are quite a few new revisions of the IS38 now since the H version - which may make searching for a H version difficult - if you are searching yourself.

[INASNT]

With the IS38 Turbo are you planning on sourcing a second hand one, or are you going to look for a new one? Or are you going to get your APR shop to search for one for you?

It is just that there are quite a few new revisions of the IS38 now since the H version - which may make searching for a H version difficult - if you are searching yourself.

What are the latest revisions? Whats the differences from the H?

[Beedub]

From the first page of this thread, these are the versions known to be without issue;

06K 145 722 H
06K 145 722 T
06K 145 874 F

I can't find any reference of any others out there.

[davman]

Considering this is been something I have been researching, I started looking for H Revisions and F Revisions. These searches proved to be ok, but only a smattering of results. It seems that 06K 145 874G and now 06K 145 874P are also IS38 codes.
Genuine Volkswagen Audi - 06K145874P - IS38 Turbocharger (06K 145 874 P)

If you search on the P codes, you can come up with a whole lot more options as far as buying new ones - than even searching for the F code. Not a whole lot of information about what is different in them that I could find, however someone else might have some.

[Boosted_GP]

I loads of 874L and G turbos available. Are these all identical to the 722H in terms of size and flow? Does anyone know what the revisions where?


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[davman]

So far in my research I have found.
06K145874L is an IS20
06K145874F is an IS38
06K145874G is an IS38
06K145874P is an IS38

Not much information I can find, however I believe that from the F version up they had a slight increase in flow - however that was just based on some forum information, not any hard core facts

[Boosted_GP]

Thanks.

874L being an is20 I am sure will confuse plenty people.


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[REXman]

So question. If I buy just the turbo, which I'm about to do, will I need any other parts to fit it in.. I know I'll need to tune, but will the turbo just bolt on straight forward or do I need other brakcets and stuff?

I don't mind doing the DP and tune.. just want to make sure I don't need to spend heaps on other pieces for it to fit

[iDiesel]

Which turbo - IS38 or one of the hybrids?